Self-Defense laws in your state?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Pepsiman, May 5, 2017.

  1. Pepsiman

    Pepsiman Yellow Belt

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    You're preaching to the choir on this one, my friend lol. There is absolutely nothing wrong with defending yourself if you have to, morally speaking. However, I don't think that means you'd be exempt of legal consequence.

    If you were to use lethal force, wouldn't you have to prove in court that said lethal force was justified? Even legally-speaking, there's always a possibility of your case being deemed "imperfect self-defense".

    Wasn't really asking for any, but you aren't wrong. Legal advice isn't really hard to come by if you know where to look, so I do agree that people contact a state lawyer if needed.

    I think you're confusing Wikipedia for WebMD, here. ::p

    Which is why this thread exists. Laws can be different, whether slightly or vastly, so I wanted to hear from people on the forum. So far I've seen good discussions, here. :)

    I don't live in Ohio, but "Buckeye Firearms Association" is a cool name for an organization. In my case, I've got Home - Florida Carry, Inc.

    May peace favor your sword, also, friend.
     
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  2. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Differing jurisdictions use differing people to decide who gets prosecuted and who doesn't. Sometimes that person(s) will look at a case and decide not to press charges. Sometimes they will. But the decision is not usually made for what most people believe.

    In many (most?) states, a non-LEO/non-government-authorized-person deliberately killing someone is considered a crime regardless of whether or not it was justified. Seriously. It's still a crime. In those cases Self Defense is considered an Affirmative Defense. The short version is that you admit that you broke the law (by killing someone) but affirm that it was justified and required because it was a reasonable act of self defense. Showing that requires going to Court and presenting the legal defense of "Self Defense" which would be (depending on applicable legalese, which varies from state to state) be called "Justifiable Homicide." In those cases in which a state has a Homicide law similar to what I've mentioned and where a Prosecutor/DA/whatever decides not to charge, that decision was made because the entity believes that the Affirmative Defense would be accepted in court. Remember, you've already admitted that you killed someone but are now just claiming that you will be reasonably acquitted.

    Some of the Stand Your Ground laws work like that. Some don't.

    Most Castle Doctrine laws sort of work like that. Some don't.

    The internet is a terrible place to find which is which. :D

    This is just the tip of the iceberg and I drown in the well pretty quick. This is why anyone who thinks they might possibly, at some point, employ violence in the name of personal self defense needs a lawyer. The laws are a veritable mine-field that, frankly, only a trained and experienced lawyer is qualified to navigate. Joe Sixpack, even one who is well read and well informed, is simply not qualified and will just as likely screw himself.

    The cheapest way to get where you need to go is to join one of the "self defense 'insurance'" programs like Texas Law Shield, Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund, USCCA, Carry Guard, Second Call Defense, CCW Safe, or one of the others. They're all around (roughly) $150/year starting. They'll pretty much all send you some sort of material that will help educate you about the pitfalls so that you are less likely to screw yourself until your lawyer gets on scene. Most will provide the lawyer or will pay for one you already picked out.

    Seriously, the more I learn the more I find out how much I didn't know and the more I realize that 99.999% of people giving self defense legal advice on the 'net are uninformed bozos who will probably get you arrested. Start with the often repeated advice for after a self defense incident, when the police ask questions, that you should do 3 things: "Shut up. Shut up. Shut up." Currently the legal eagles say that for a justified self defense even, this is not only wrong, but will get you arrested and will almost certainly do great, possibly irreparable harm, to your self defense case. But neither should you be chatty. There are certain things that you should communicate and tell the officers. I'm not really at liberty to give out their advice since they're wanting people to pay for it, but a good primer/overview was discussed a few months ago, on the weekend broadcast, for The Armed American Radio broadcast.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  3. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    defend yourself!

     
  4. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    In the USA the law says you're allowed to defend yourself. It doesn't matter where you are in the country in the USA you have the right by law to defend yourself if you're attacked. Now that doesn't mean you can continue to beat on an attacker once you've stopped them. When it comes to self defense you're intent should be to stop the attacker. You're intent should not be to kill, it should not be to injure, it should be to stop. Once you've stopped your attacker you've fulfilled your intent so there is no reason to keep using force at that point and thus it would not validate self defense. But up until you've stopped your attacker you can fight back as that would be self defense.

    There are many members on this forum who don't live in the USA and I don't know how it is regarding the legality of self defense in other countries but that's how it is in the USA.
     
  5. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    I side with Headhunter on this one. I've reached a point where I now say to hell with those laws and the scoundrels who make them.

    You guys really need to remind yourselves that the value of your lives and the lives of your loved ones should not be determined by laws made by people who do not live among the common citizens, who travel with bodyguards and live in million dollar gated communities.
     
  6. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    You can defend yourself and stay within the law.
     
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  7. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    I'm not arguing against that possibility. What I'm saying is if your life or the life of your loved ones is at stake you have a choice to make; worry about self defense laws (most of which is ridiculous) and possibly lose yours or your loved one's life OR take on the attitude/mindset that yours and your loved ones lives HAVE MORE VALUE than laws that protect criminals and punish the good guys. Laws fabricated by people who DO NOT live in the real world among society's sociopaths like you and I do.
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Actually, most Self Defense law in the U.S. is pretty reasonable.

    Most law in the U.S. supports this the person defending themselves and their family against lethal force.

    Maybe you're confusing the recent trend in some locals in the U.S. for politically motivated prosecutors to bring charges which are poorly supported by law and most often would fail when opposed by competent legal Defense. Two different things.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  9. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Really the three things to keep in mind:

    1). Is it a stand your ground state or are you required to retreat if possible.

    2). Force you use is a reasonable force for the threat encountered

    3). Did you deescalate and stop once the threat was over.
     
  10. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    I highly beg to differ. Personal experience and observation has taught me that most self defense law in the U.S. is very unreasonable.

    Again, I beg to differ thanks to personal experience and observation.

    Not confusing anything. Politically motivated prosecutors, distasteful "Legal Defense" and the policy makers all occupy the same dirty basket; they all occupy a place in the world in which they place themselves above the people who do not occupy the same place as them; the place of law, law enforcement, legislation, policy making and politics.

    Laws are meant to keep average people in line and let criminals do whatever they want so it's really a suckers game. And these same laws are passed down and enforced by people many of whom are criminals themselves. They simply get a pass since they make and enforce the laws. Again, IT'S A SUCKERS GAME!!
     
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Then I guess we're just going to disagree. I've based my opinion on reading a bunch of the laws, looking at case law, and listening to the opinions of self defense attorneys and Expert Witnesses.
     
  12. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    And I've based mine on observing the application of these laws in reality and actual practice.
     
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Oh. You mean the difference between politically motivated prosecutors bringing charges which are poorly supported by law and most often would fail when opposed by competent legal Defense and the actual law?
     
  14. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    How so?

    LEO
    Defense Attorney
    Prosecuting Attorney
    Firearms instructor
     
  15. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    What I am saying is that you don't have to make that choice. Familiarise yourself with he law, structure your training and your scenario drills to work within the law, and then when the time comes and you instinctively do what your training has taught you to do, you don't have to worry about the law because you stayed on the right side of it.

    You do not have to think " Screw the law, I'll take the risk" in order to defend yourself and others.
     
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  16. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    No, I mean politically motivated prosecutors cherry picking the charges they bring and distasteful Legal Defense that use their talents to defend and help acquit offenders who are definitely guilty. One Defense Attorney told me about two months ago out of his own mouth that he is in "the BUSINESS of making money by defending offenders."

    Even better. My neighbor spending the last 8 years (of a 15 year sentence) in prison for shooting a home invader. That same defense attorney I referenced above (who is damn good at what he does btw) defending and clearing a thug who shot a guy during a robbery. The scores of LEOs who should be doing time for unjustifiable homicide of unarmed citizens.

    I will say this again. MY FAMILY AND I ARE NOT WORTHLESS. OUR LIVES HAVE JUST AS MUCH VALUE AS SOCIOPATHS, CRIMINALS, POLICY MAKERS, PROSECUTORS AND LEOS!!! I have a natural human right to defend myself and my loved ones and I will not allow anyone to tell me otherwise.
     
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  17. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    So the experience you are talking about is one case that happened to your neighbor and a conversation with one Attorney.......that is an awfully small sample size to make broad assumptions on lethal force laws in the US
     
  18. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    But there may come a time when you WILL have to make that choice is what I am saying.

    As much as I want to do exactly what you said I don't want you to overlook that trying your best to stay on the right side of the law may cost you or a loved one's life. I'm not saying every altercation has to end in the loss of life or limb. I am saying that if I know for sure that my safety is on the line then I am in full self preservation mode and worrying about these laws maybe that one dent in my armor that can cause my family to have to bury me instead of seeing me in court. You know, the whole judged by 12 instead of buried by 6 thing.

    Well, while defending myself I certainly will not be thinking about how much trouble I can get into if I do serious or lethal harm to someone. I'll be too busy fighting to survive.

    You are just as familiar with Geoff Thompson as I am. Recall that he would always refer to the Law as "The Second Enemy". There's a reason who said this.

    I guess I've dealt with enough pond scum to be unable to see things the way many other posters see it in this thread. But my message to criminals, thugs, psychopaths, sociopaths, LEOs, prosecutors and judges is the same. MY LIFE HAS JUST AS MUCH VALUE AS THEIRS DO!!
     
  19. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    NO! That is just ONE CASE that I shared. I never said it's the ONLY CASE!! There are plenty of others. But one case is enough because what I am talking about as far as justice and these "self defense laws" are concerned SHOULDN'T HAPPEN AT ALL! That's the point that I believe is eluding you.
     
  20. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Where I live the law states you have the right to defend yourself if it is reasonable to believe your life is in danger of death or great bodily harm. The law also states you have the right to defend yourself anywhere you have the lawful right to be.

    Now....explain how these self defense laws are unreasonable?123
     

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