Self Defense for Women

[Dirty Dog]

If your MMA is so great for self defense as you say then why do you still feel the need to carry so many weapons?

Because self-defense isn't about a fair fight.

 

[Hanzou]

yeah that's compete nonsense as well.

So you believe that it's a good idea for women (and people in general) to carry loaded guns on their person at all times?

Aren't you a cop?

 

[ballen0351]

So you believe that it's a good idea for women (and people in general) to carry loaded guns on their person at all times?

Aren't you a cop?

Yes not only do I think it's a good idea I encourage everyone I meet to do . Yes I'm a cop so I know the reality and I also known how long it takes me to get to you when you call for help so your better off saving yourself

 

[Dirty Dog]

So you believe that it's a good idea for women (and people in general) to carry loaded guns on their person at all times?

Aren't you a cop?

Absolutely. The job of the police is not to protect you. They can't. Their job is primarily to collect evidence about events that are already concluded for the trial, if there is one.
You have to protect yourself.
I carry a gun, and have for years. And yes, it's loaded, because an unloaded gun is just a paperweight.
My wife carries a gun.
Our children have all been taught to use firearms, and about half of them carry on a regular basis.
I am not a cop, but my mother was. So were two of her brothers. One of our kids is a correctional officer at a max security facility. One of my cousins is lead detective. Several of my best friends are street cops or detectives.
I can't think of a single one of them who doesn't think armed and trained citizens is a good idea.

 

[ballen0351]

Absolutely. The job of the police is not to protect you. They can't.

while this is true just know I'll do everything possible and some impossible things to try

 

[Hanzou]

Yes not only do I think it's a good idea I encourage everyone I meet to do . Yes I'm a cop so I know the reality and I also known how long it takes me to get to you when you call for help so your better off saving yourself

Yeah, but the statistics don't bear that out. It shows the exact opposite effect, and that more guns in the population lead to more (non-self defense) homicides.

I also find this all very interesting since a few months ago you were advocating that choking someone in a fight could lead to some serious criminal charges, but you're okay with people blowing each other's heads off in similar circumstances. Wouldn't killing someone also lead to severe criminal charges if you can't prove the shooting was justified?

Absolutely. The job of the police is not to protect you.

It was all a lie.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah, but the statistics don't bear that out. It shows the exact opposite effect, and that more guns in the population lead to more (non-self defense) homicides.

I also find this all very interesting since a few months ago you were advocating that choking someone in a fight could lead to some serious criminal charges, but you're okay with people blowing each other's heads off in similar circumstances. Wouldn't killing someone also lead to severe criminal charges if you can't prove the shooting was justified?

It was all a lie.

actually the study done by the CDC after Sandy hook shows your far safer defending yourself with a firearm then any other method or weapon. Also depending on which study you read there are over 100000+ positive uses of firearms for self defense a year. But hey you got a salon article so facts don't mean much to you. And you shouldn't be blowing someone's head off or choking someone out in a simple fist fight both will get you in serious trouble.

 

[Hanzou]

actually the study done by the CDC after Sandy hook shows your far safer defending yourself with a firearm then any other method or weapon. Also depending on which study you read there are over 100000+ positive uses of firearms for self defense a year. But hey you got a salon article so facts don't mean much to you. And you shouldn't be blowing someone's head off or choking someone out in a simple fist fight both will get you in serious trouble.

Fist fights like this;

???

Thankfully, this woman wasn't killed, but this little girl was killed in a completely different situation;

7-year-old girl killed at MI soccer practice after ‘paranoid’ man with concealed carry license opens fire

By a man with a CCW permit.

Also the article was from Slate, not Salon.

 

[ballen0351]

Fist fights like this;

???

Also the article was from Slate, not Salon.

that's not a fist fight that's a home invasion

 

[ballen0351]

Also the article was from Slate, not Salon.

Yes I apologize
Here also from "Slate":
. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.” But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, “because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.” Furthermore, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
Ten Surprising Findings From a New Report on Gun Violence

 

[ballen0351]

Thankfully, this woman wasn't killed, but this little girl was killed in a completely different situation;

7-year-old girl killed at MI soccer practice after ‘paranoid’ man with concealed carry license opens fire

By a man with a CCW permit.

.

You must of added this or I didnt see it at first which is possible im running on about 16 hours sleep over the last 96 hours. Yes you found a horror story but we can play that game forever you find a bad story I find a good story tit for tat it really proves nothing either way.

 

[Hanzou]

that's not a fist fight that's a home invasion

I said "fist fight" because the attacker was unarmed.

So, would choking the guy, (or blowing his head off) be perfectly justifiable in that instance?

Yes I apologize
Here also from "Slate":
. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.” But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, “because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.” Furthermore, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
Ten Surprising Findings From a New Report on Gun Violence

So are you okay with articles from Slate.com?

You must of added this or I didnt see it at first which is possible im running on about 16 hours sleep over the last 96 hours. Yes you found a horror story but we can play that game forever you find a bad story I find a good story tit for tat it really proves nothing either way.

Sure, but clearly if that guy wasn't armed with a loaded gun (or bought into the notion that he needed to carry a loaded gun everywhere he went) that little girl would be alive today.

 

[WaterGal]

Guns can be great for self-defense - if you have the training. Owning a gun is not enough, you need to put in many many hours of training to develop the skills to be able to use it quickly and effectively under pressure. Standing around shooting a paper target in an indoor range while wearing ear protection (edit: or shooting empty milk jugs in a quarry, like I used to do with my brother, hahah) is totally different from a real-life encounter, where you have a short time limit, your target is moving, you may be moving, you may be injured, your target may be trying to take the gun from you, etc etc. If you have a gun and don't know how to use it in that kind of situation, it's not going to help you and may result in your injury or death.

Keep in mind that last year, about 22% of American private citizens owned a firearm, and yet only 229 of them successfully shot and killed someone in self-defense. Which is less than half the number who accidentally shot and killed themselves or someone else with their gun.

I think, if we encourage people to carry a gun in self-defense, it's important to stress that they'll also need to put a lot of time into training how to use it properly and safely. (Personally, I think that kind of training should be one of the requirement for a concealed carry permit, and possibly even to buy a handgun at all.)

 

[WaterGal]

@oftheherd1I think if I were permitted to generalise, marketing for commerce has sexualised young people as possibly not previously, would you agree? I think this portrays a lifestyle ideal though horrendously misinforms those young folk as to what is acceptable - for me, music vids I some times am left without words to know that very young kids are exposed to this as normal and as worse, treat it and act it out as almost goal or ideal behaviour, boys and girls both.

The media absolutely does sexualize young people and promotes unhealthy ideas about sex and relationships and one's interactions with the opposite sex, that's definitely true, but I think that's the result rather than the cause. Most of the people in charge of "the media" are middle-aged or older men. They weren't watching sexy music videos as kids. I think, rather, they view teenage girls as sex objects and then that influences the media that gets made.

 

[Steve]

The media absolutely does sexualize young people and promotes unhealthy ideas about sex and relationships and one's interactions with the opposite sex, that's definitely true, but I think that's the result rather than the cause. Most of the people in charge of "the media" are middle-aged or older men. They weren't watching sexy music videos as kids. I think, rather, they view teenage girls as sex objects and then that influences the media that gets made.

there were a couple of good threads in this a while back. Got a little heated but some good information, nonetheless, if I remember correctly. On a phone so searching is a little rough but maybr someone can find it.

 

[ballen0351]

I said "fist fight" because the attacker was unarmed.

if your not able to tell the difference between a simple fight and a home invasion robbery then it's kind of hard to discuss using any type of self defense

So, would choking the guy, (or blowing his head off) be perfectly justifiable in that instance?

hitting him with a mack truck would be ok in that instance.

So are you okay with articles from Slate.com?

doesn't matter if I am, you are so I used it

Sure, but clearly if that guy wasn't armed with a loaded gun (or bought into the notion that he needed to carry a loaded gun everywhere he went) that little girl would be alive today.

you do know Its possible to kill a little girl without a gun right? And in this guys situation had his family and friends stepped up and reported him and his behavior prior he could have possibly gotten some help. Instead they wait until after he kills and then say oh yeah he was acting crazy. Again 1 death prices nothing when you have several hundred thousand people a year defending themselves with a gun

 

[ballen0351]

Guns can be great for self-defense - if you have the training. Owning a gun is not enough, you need to put in many many hours of training to develop the skills to be able to use it quickly and effectively under pressure. Standing around shooting a paper target in an indoor range while wearing ear protection (edit: or shooting empty milk jugs in a quarry, like I used to do with my brother, hahah) is totally different from a real-life encounter, where you have a short time limit, your target is moving, you may be moving, you may be injured, your target may be trying to take the gun from you, etc etc. If you have a gun and don't know how to use it in that kind of situation, it's not going to help you and may result in your injury or death.

I agree you need to train with all forms of self defense

Keep in mind that last year, about 22% of American private citizens owned a firearm, and yet only 229 of them successfully shot and killed someone in self-defense. Which is less than half the number who accidentally shot and killed themselves or someone else with their gun.

I don't think your numbers are accurate however even if they are there are hundreds of thousands of instances where someone defended themselves with a gun where nobody was shot. You don't need to fire the weapon to successfully defend yourself

I think, if we encourage people to carry a gun in self-defense, it's important to stress that they'll also need to put a lot of time into training how to use it properly and safely. (Personally, I think that kind of training should be one of the requirement for a concealed carry permit, and possibly even to buy a handgun at all.)

again that goes for all types of,self defense. That's what most of us here do already spending hours a week training for self defense

 

[Hanzou]

Guns can be great for self-defense - if you have the training. Owning a gun is not enough, you need to put in many many hours of training to develop the skills to be able to use it quickly and effectively under pressure. Standing around shooting a paper target in an indoor range while wearing ear protection (edit: or shooting empty milk jugs in a quarry, like I used to do with my brother, hahah) is totally different from a real-life encounter, where you have a short time limit, your target is moving, you may be moving, you may be injured, your target may be trying to take the gun from you, etc etc. If you have a gun and don't know how to use it in that kind of situation, it's not going to help you and may result in your injury or death.

Keep in mind that last year, about 22% of American private citizens owned a firearm, and yet only 229 of them successfully shot and killed someone in self-defense. Which is less than half the number who accidentally shot and killed themselves or someone else with their gun.

I think, if we encourage people to carry a gun in self-defense, it's important to stress that they'll also need to put a lot of time into training how to use it properly and safely. (Personally, I think that kind of training should be one of the requirement for a concealed carry permit, and possibly even to buy a handgun at all.)

Well even when they train, and learn how to use them properly they end up killing themselves, an innocent bystander, or end up getting the weapon turned on themselves.

Heck, look at American cops. They're wrongfully gunning down people left and right instead of using alternative measures. If they can't be trusted with guns with their training, then the average citizen shouldn't be either. Arming the population simply leads to a more paranoid society as a whole.

 

[ballen0351]

Well even when they train, and learn how to use them properly they end up killing themselves, an innocent bystander, or end up getting the weapon turned on themselves.

Heck, look at American cops. They're wrongfully gunning down people left and right instead of using alternative measures. If they can't be trusted with guns with their training, then the average citizen shouldn't be either. Arming the population simply leads to a more paranoid society as a whole.

except the stats prove this nonsense wrong sooooooo

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, but the statistics don't bear that out. It shows the exact opposite effect, and that more guns in the population lead to more (non-self defense) homicides.

I also find this all very interesting since a few months ago you were advocating that choking someone in a fight could lead to some serious criminal charges, but you're okay with people blowing each other's heads off in similar circumstances. Wouldn't killing someone also lead to severe criminal charges if you can't prove the shooting was justified?

It was all a lie.

There was a huff a while back in the courts where it was ruled the police do not have a duty to protect you. But it was more like if you run into a burning building. Yoi cant sue if they dont run in after you.