round house kick vs front kick

[Cyriacus]

Ours (Isshin-Ryu) is a snap kick intended (as I am taught) to collapse the pelvic bone; thus it penetrates and it not intended to lightly brush the genitalia of the opponent. The fact that the wedding tackle is damaged when the kick is thrown properly is simply incidental; it is not the target, it's just in the way of the target. There are many people, including those who are drunk or stoned, who can withstand a solid kick to the snarglies. Not many can continue to walk if the pelvic bone snaps. At least, this is how we are taught to deliver the mae geri. We also have a mae konate, which is a heel thrust kick. Looks similar to some, but it is delivered with the heel rather than the ball of the foot, and it is intended more as a 'get away from me' strike (again, as I understand it). It is delivered at or above the obi.

Of course it can be used that way - Its a matter of how You use it.
A Front Kick is by all means a Primary Kick, with the Ball of the Foot. Its just not used that way much these days.
Front Heel Kicks are great Pushes, but dont deliver much Impact Power.

 

[MaxiMe]

(for whom 'larger than me' is somewhat infrequent),
by someone whom I outweighed by over a hundred pounds. And some shy away from it since it means turning your back to your opponent, but in reality, it's pretty safe, since you are From that position, a spinning back-fist is a great follow up too. That kick is something I intend to work on hard in the new year.

1. Same here. Taller yup, larger not so much
2. Have you been watching my daughter spar? (her signature move)

3. Been working on that one myself. I think it's the one that needs the most of my attention ATM.

 

[zDom]

Of course it can be used that way - Its a matter of how You use it.
A Front Kick is by all means a Primary Kick, with the Ball of the Foot. Its just not used that way much these days.
Front Heel Kicks are great Pushes, but dont deliver much Impact Power.

A strike if thrown slow enough is a push. Any strike thrown fast enough — even front heel kicks — deliver plenty of impact power.

My front thrusting heel kick is trained on the heavy bag to fold the bag (just like I train my side kick, my round kick, etc.) not push it.

Some arts train the front kick with ball of the foot as push — isn't that what Muy Thai call their front kick? The push kick?

I am seeing a lot of people stating things in this thread as "facts" when they are specific to their schools. Especially terminology.


In Moo Sul Kwan, a roundhouse kick is a roundhouse kick whether using the instep or ball of the foot as a weapon, whether you use your
front leg or back leg.

But then, we differentiate the kick some people call a roundhouse that comes in at an upward 45 degree angle as a different kick: we call that
an "arc kick" (our roundhouse kicks come in with the foot following the knee on the same plane relative to the floor).

But I wouldn't presume to correct someone else's terminology. They call things what they call them; we call them what we call them.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Of course it can be used that way - Its a matter of how You use it.
A Front Kick is by all means a Primary Kick, with the Ball of the Foot. Its just not used that way much these days.
Front Heel Kicks are great Pushes, but dont deliver much Impact Power.

It *can* deliver power, though. You have to tilt the pelvis as you thrust it. With the proper snapping motion to the hips, you get great penetration and power. Not claiming I'm all that good at it (yet) but I have seen it used effectively.

 

[mxav]

the round house is more telegraphed and disobeys the time homor principle of the straight line, not TKD's greatest technique

 

[chrispillertkd]

the round house is more telegraphed and disobeys the time homor principle of the straight line, not TKD's greatest technique

What it lacks in speed the roundhouse kick (or turning kick/ tolly chagi) makes up for in ... well, speed. A front kick will reach its target quicker because it takes a more direct route. A tolly chagi takes longer but will have a higher rate of speed when it does reach the target. Like a wheel on a bike, the outer edge rotates at a faster rate than the hub. You will get more power out of the tolly chagi, all things being equal, than the ap chabushigi (front kick). I've seen people throw tollyo chagis with pheonomeal speed off the back leg. Like any other technique, the more you practcie it the more likely you'll be able to use it.

The real question is, what targets present themselves. This will determine what techniques you'll have to use.

Pax,

Chris

 

[NSRTKD]

Yep.
A Front Kick isnt a pick up > snap out like alot of People make it.
I could go further into detail, but were both on the same page, and itd be unnecessary.

I'm sorry to seem uneducated, but could you go into further detail about this? If it doesn't fit here pm me, if you don't mind... in the dojang I trained in (Note the past tense HA!) We did very little striking of actual targets. Our training was so focused on one-steps that there was never much time for striking bags and pads, and the only kicking we did often was in rank, kicking air. Is there a way to throw the kick with the proper pushing force from the supporting leg while kicking in the air, or is kicking a target a must? I will try this on the heavy bag I have downstairs... seems rather ridiculous that I'm a high green belt yet this is the first I've heard of using my supporting leg for force rather than a simple snap of the knee.

 

[Grenadier]

I'm sorry to seem uneducated, but could you go into further detail about this?

I will try this on the heavy bag I have downstairs... seems rather ridiculous that I'm a high green belt yet this is the first I've heard of using my supporting leg for force rather than a simple snap of the knee.

Think of it this way... Which is going to do more damage? A punch from a standing position, or a punch that is delivered the same way, but with you stepping forward?

The punch that has forward momentum assisting it will have a lot more force, since you're using the muscles of the legs and hips to power it as well.

The kick works exactly the same way. It's the same kick penetrating forward, but with the back leg driving forward. This way, you generate more power, penetrate more, and also close the gap when attacking.

You can certainly practice this kick when kicking the air.

Try it by starting from a standard forward stance (in Karate, we call it Zen Kutsu Dachi (Gunnun Sogi in Tae Kwon Do). Kick from your back leg and step forward like you normally do.

Now, have someone stand in front of you, and pull you forward by your belt while you kick. The kick should be more powerful than your previous kick was.

Now, duplicate this forward motion by driving off your back leg before you throw the kick. This should be as powerful, maybe more powerful, than the assisted one you just did. You can do this kind of kick at the air, or on a target.

In the second and third case, you have forward momentum assisting you. In the first case, you do not. You're still snapping the kick back after it has reached its target in any case.

 

[Cyriacus]

A strike if thrown slow enough is a push. Any strike thrown fast enough — even front heel kicks — deliver plenty of impact power.

My front thrusting heel kick is trained on the heavy bag to fold the bag (just like I train my side kick, my round kick, etc.) not push it.

Some arts train the front kick with ball of the foot as push — isn't that what Muy Thai call their front kick? The push kick?

I am seeing a lot of people stating things in this thread as "facts" when they are specific to their schools. Especially terminology.


In Moo Sul Kwan, a roundhouse kick is a roundhouse kick whether using the instep or ball of the foot as a weapon, whether you use your
front leg or back leg.

But then, we differentiate the kick some people call a roundhouse that comes in at an upward 45 degree angle as a different kick: we call that
an "arc kick" (our roundhouse kicks come in with the foot following the knee on the same plane relative to the floor).

Of course it can generate Power - But it isnt exactly a Kick designed for it. Its designed to Push.

It *can* deliver power, though. You have to tilt the pelvis as you thrust it. With the proper snapping motion to the hips, you get great penetration and power. Not claiming I'm all that good at it (yet) but I have seen it used effectively.

Im aware of this also. But again - Its a question of how much Power You want. And having seen it used effectively, can You really say that as a Power/Penetration themed Kick, it wouldnt be as worthwhile to Learn a Front Kick with the Ball of the Foot with similar Body Mechanics, and get more Power?
If its a Push You want, a Push Kick will lend that. But like a Side Kick that Chambers off to the Side, Less Power. More Push. Power still there.

 

[puunui]

Round or turn kick with full hip turn and plant for pivot will out power a front kick everytime. Now if you can't perform a correct turn kick then there is no power whatsoever.

I always smile when I read or hear about people who claim to be taekwondoin, but they don't say roundhouse is their bread and butter kick, which is powerful enough to drop anyone in their tracks, if done correctly at the correct time. The thing with roundhouse kick is that your opponent does not go flying backwards if you nail it; instead they just fold over and/or crumple where they are.

 

[puunui]

A front kick is a straight line motion.

So is a roundhouse kick.

 

[Cyriacus]

So is a roundhouse kick.

Ill combine asking and stating;

In the KKW WTF System, is a Roundhouse not a more Circular Version of the more Linear, Straight Line Round Kick, or are the two terms as interchangeable as theyre made out to be?

 

[puunui]

In the KKW WTF System, is a Roundhouse not a more Circular Version of the more Linear, Straight Line Round Kick, or are the two terms as interchangeable as theyre made out to be?

some people say roundhouse, others say round kick. both refer to the same kick, in my opinion, which is ap dollyo chagi in korean. And by the way, the term ap in ap dollyo chagi does not refer to the knee chamber on the kick, but rather it goes to the motion of the body, going or turning forward. This is in contrast to a spin hook kick or back kick, where the body turns backward.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm sorry to seem uneducated, but could you go into further detail about this? If it doesn't fit here pm me, if you don't mind... in the dojang I trained in (Note the past tense HA!) We did very little striking of actual targets. Our training was so focused on one-steps that there was never much time for striking bags and pads, and the only kicking we did often was in rank, kicking air. Is there a way to throw the kick with the proper pushing force from the supporting leg while kicking in the air, or is kicking a target a must? I will try this on the heavy bag I have downstairs... seems rather ridiculous that I'm a high green belt yet this is the first I've heard of using my supporting leg for force rather than a simple snap of the knee.

Pushing Force? Try pulling force to pushing Force.
Sean

 

[WC_lun]

Okey, for your point of view wich kick is stronger, the roundhouse kick or the front kick, aimed to the gut. Some times I just think a well placed round kick to the stomach is better than a front kick however let me tell you the front kick is better suited for a streetfight.

Manny

Wouldn't it be a case of of two different tools, to be used according to which is best for the situation?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Pushing Force? Try pulling force to pushing Force.
Sean

Yes, exactly. Envision yourself reaching up with your arms, grasping attacker's arms under the bicep, and pulling him hard towards you, using your momentum to at the same time drive your foot into his abdomen in a heel push kick. You'll be leaning slightly back, hips tilted forward, standing leg is bent slightly at the knee, kicking leg is thrown like a canon ball. You can practice this with a partner, gently.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Yes, exactly. Envision yourself reaching up with your arms, grasping attacker's arms under the bicep, and pulling him hard towards you, using your momentum to at the same time drive your foot into his abdomen in a heel push kick. You'll be leaning slightly back, hips tilted forward, standing leg is bent slightly at the knee, kicking leg is thrown like a canon ball. You can practice this with a partner, gently.

I won't counterbalance if I can help it, but I'm with ya.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I won't counterbalance if I can help it, but I'm with ya.

I'll grant you that I would not lean backwards if an opponent was rushing, but if they were reaching for you; say a barroom situation, that's a counter we practice in the dojo quite often. Leaning back is not such a problem when you're locked into their triceps or the bottom of their elbows; they are holding you up and giving you the lever to kick them with. Another kick that can be applied from that situation is to angle the foot slightly and apply it to the top of the opponent's hip on the side you are kicking with. Balance point; beautiful response. But not properly a heel thrust kick, and huge power isn't necessary.

 

[NSRTKD]

Thank you SO MUCH to Cy, Bill Mattocks and TOD for the coaching on this. I can't even express how helpful that is!!! Seems silly to have advanced through the ranks without knowing how to properly apply a front kick, though I can execute one "prettily" haha. This is one reason (of many) that I have halted training at my dojang. I have no interest in receiving drive-thru belts that I don't deserve just because I can demonstrate the material in the air.

 

[Cyriacus]

Thank you SO MUCH to Cy, Bill Mattocks and TOD for the coaching on this. I can't even express how helpful that is!!! Seems silly to have advanced through the ranks without knowing how to properly apply a front kick, though I can execute one "prettily" haha. This is one reason (of many) that I have halted training at my dojang. I have no interest in receiving drive-thru belts that I don't deserve just because I can demonstrate the material in the air.

The Important thing is, that armed with this Knowledge, You find a better Dojang, if that is what You desire.