Rank based on progress vs. merit, and/or when to switch

[Flying Crane]

Down block to one side, high block to the other. Look up the video for Keumgang, it's the block used in crane stance. Unfortunately for you, it's a standing crane, not a flying one.

Ok, it’s what I thought. Firstly, the crane stance would be used to avoid a sweep. Think of it as a standing sweep, not one of those sweeps where the sweeper drops down low. Rather from an upright position he tries to hook behind your ankle with his right foot (against your left) and pull your foot out from under you. So you rise into crane stance. It’s quick and brief and fleeting, you don’t hold the foot up because that would leave you vulnerable. But you lift to avoid his hooking sweep and then put it back down once his foot has passed under you. But simultaneously the low block could be reinterpreted as a jamming move to his upper thigh, meant to disrupt his sweep. You’d could even do that as a two-handed move to make it stronger. So what the upper block would be, I’m not sure off the top of my head, but I just interpreted a useful function of most of that posture from that form.

 

[Graywalker]

Tap, tap...is this mic on?

 

[isshinryuronin]

.
. There's this romanticized version of martial arts that you are acting out a fight when you do kata, which is what I'm arguing against.

It's true you are not acting out an entire choreographed fight in kata, but rather acting out individual snippets of a fight/potential fights, strung together to practice them. A 2-5 move series may represent one scenario (say, defending a double hi grab with a counter) while another series may be an unrelated scenario (like a simple punch defense incorporating a parry, counter strike and takedown.)

nor doing a down block and high block at the same time, and especially not both together.

These moves may look like 2 blocks, but perhaps consider they represent something else. Could it be a type of arm lock? Or maybe a high block (could grab afterwards) and the "low block" is actually a low strike to bladder or groin? You can't always tell a book by it cover.

I cannot see the techniques in the advanced forms being used in a real fight,

As stated above, there may be practical applications to the form's techniques beyond what they appear to be. IMO, about half of these movements are usable in real situations. Of course, when practising these individual short series of moves, one must visualize the "real" meaning of the moves and use a partner to insure they work as originally intended, before they became "performances" or simple basic drilling, instead of combat training.

 

[Flying Crane]

This is my assessment of the TKD forms if used to teach application. It is also my assessment of the same forms if used as you describe. They work well for body mechanics. They make horrible assumptions if it is supposed to be a real fight.

Fair enough and your assessment could be correct. They could be mostly useful to reinforce fundamental principles as expressed in foundation techniques. However, I suggest that fundamentals and straight-forward, non-complicated techniques are the most useful. That is your bread and butter, they give you the most mileage. So those forms then become useful for application, because you have used them to hone your bread and butter material. Don’t get all twisted up looking for complex applications. Sometimes what you need is just a straight, powerful punch to the face.

 

[wab25]

You do realize, you have given me every single "dislike" I have on this forum... for trying to answer questions that you asked.... Oh well, live and learn....

Actually, the boxing videos I watch suggest you train against the bag as you would against an opponent. Keep yohr hands up, mix in headwork to practice avoiding potential counter-attacks.

A heavy bag won't fall back out of range as a person can when hit. When a person is hit in the head, their head moves away further than their legs do. With a heavy bag, if you hit it in the head, the feet move further than the head. If you are throwing a combo to the head, on a heavy bag, you don't have to move as far as you would, when hitting a person in the head. Heavy bags also don't double over from body blows. They don't bob, weave, block, turn, or hit back. All of these actions would cause "changes" to the form you practiced on the bag.

Pads can move, because the person holding pads can move them.

The person you are boxing, will move differently than the pads. You and a pad holder can work out amazing pad drills, that you will never see in the ring. See Pacquiao and Roach...

As to the double knife-hand block, even if I did get over calling it a block (which I won't), that motion doesn't make sense for any grappling or striking techniques I know.

There is your problem, you are restricting everything by what you know. Actually, this application you will be familiar with the attack. You probably have another defense for it. But, this one would work just as well... maybe better in some respects. And there are no changes in form or label needed.

 

[Flying Crane]

Actually, the boxing videos I watch suggest you train against the bag as you would against an opponent. Keep yohr hands up, mix in headwork to practice avoiding potential counter-attacks.

Pads can move, because the person holding pads can move them.

As to the double knife-hand block, even if I did get over calling it a block (which I won't), that motion doesn't make sense for any grappling or striking techniques I know. In fact, it makes less sense as a strike than a block.

Personally I don’t spar against a heavy bag. I do work some combos, but mostly I work my fundamental techniques, over and over to just drill in my mechanics and get comfortable hitting something hard. I cycle through my hand strikes and kicks and some elbows and such, but mostly one tech at a time, with some amount of combos.

That’s my approach, anyways.

 

[skribs]

You do realize, you have given me every single "dislike" I have on this forum... for trying to answer questions that you asked.... Oh well, live and learn....

A heavy bag won't fall back out of range as a person can when hit. When a person is hit in the head, their head moves away further than their legs do. With a heavy bag, if you hit it in the head, the feet move further than the head. If you are throwing a combo to the head, on a heavy bag, you don't have to move as far as you would, when hitting a person in the head. Heavy bags also don't double over from body blows. They don't bob, weave, block, turn, or hit back. All of these actions would cause "changes" to the form you practiced on the bag.


The person you are boxing, will move differently than the pads. You and a pad holder can work out amazing pad drills, that you will never see in the ring. See Pacquiao and Roach...


There is your problem, you are restricting everything by what you know. Actually, this application you will be familiar with the attack. You probably have another defense for it. But, this one would work just as well... maybe better in some respects. And there are no changes in form or label needed.

If the problem is that I don't know the application, what does that say about how well the form teaches the application? You're kind of proving my point.

 

[skribs]

Ok, it’s what I thought. Firstly, the crane stance would be used to avoid a sweep. Think of it as a standing sweep, not one of those sweeps where the sweeper drops down low. Rather from an upright position he tries to hook behind your ankle with his right foot (against your left) and pull your foot out from under you. So you rise into crane stance. It’s quick and brief and fleeting, you don’t hold the foot up because that would leave you vulnerable. But you lift to avoid his hooking sweep and then put it back down once his foot has passed under you. But simultaneously the low block could be reinterpreted as a jamming move to his upper thigh, meant to disrupt his sweep. You’d could even do that as a two-handed move to make it stronger. So what the upper block would be, I’m not sure off the top of my head, but I just interpreted a useful function of most of that posture from that form.

And that's where my issue is. Each of those pieces of the technique make sense. Put 2 or 3 of them together, and it gets harder to explain. Other than that it's good for balance, or that it looks cool, of course.

 

[Graywalker]

This crane stance, with the upper and lower blocks, is a bunkai from the Nohai/rohai kata in Kwon Bup.

Attacker- left punch to head
Defender- circles the left hand over the strike and down, closing the left arm across the body and then a left side kick to the attackers body.

That is one application for this move in Kwon Bup.

 

[wab25]

If the problem is that I don't know the application, what does that say about how well the form teaches the application? You're kind of proving my point.

Since I (not being a TKD guy) could look at the form and find the application... the form seems to be doing its job just fine. This one is not complicated at all.

 

[Flying Crane]

And that's where my issue is. Each of those pieces of the technique make sense. Put 2 or 3 of them together, and it gets harder to explain. Other than that it's good for balance, or that it looks cool, of course.

Well, In my experience the forms that reinforce principles more than reenact a fight, often contain that kind of thing. Every part of the sequence may not apply to every useful application. But a different interpretation with some portion of that sequence might include that part that was left out.

I guess the thing is being willing to let go of the notion that every piece has to be included exactly as it is found in the form. If you can’t do that, then you are in for a lot of frustration. If you can do that, then you start to find a lot of useful stuff.

 

[skribs]

Well, In my experience the forms that reinforce principles more than reenact a fight, often contain that kind of thing. Every part of the sequence may not apply to every useful application. But a different interpretation with some portion of that sequence might include that part that was left out.

I guess the thing is being willing to let go of the notion that every piece has to be included exactly as it is found in the form. If you can’t do that, then you are in for a lot of frustration. If you can do that, then you start to find a lot of useful stuff.

And that's what I did. If I can't find a use for it, I deemed it impractical. I ruffled a lot of feathers by doing so...

 

[skribs]

Since I (not being a TKD guy) could look at the form and find the application... the form seems to be doing its job just fine. This one is not complicated at all.

I'd love to hear an actual application that isn't snake oil. Do you have one like that? Or just more snake oil?

It's like if I go into a car dealership and say I want a red sports car. And the dealer shows me a red minivan, and a blue sports car, and is flabbergasted that I don't want either of them. He showed me a red car. He showed me a sport car. But somehow it's my fault for not liking the cars he showed me.

 

[dvcochran]

To be very clear, I am not looking for confirmation bias. I am looking for answers. When we spoke about them on this forum, I did not receive satisfactory answers. For example, I asked you specifically if you had used specific techniques from the forms in sparring. You told me you had. When I asked for specific examples of how the motion in the form was used in sparring, you never even replied. You provided no evidence to back your claim. I'm not asking for videos and detailed statistics. But just a specific example of how that motion was used, and you were unable to come up with that. Instead you'd start ranting and raving about how I don't listen or how I ask bad questions. I was listening, but you had nothing to say to back up what you were saying.

I'm still open to changing my opinion. However, I still have the same standards:

1. The technique must be done as in the form (otherwise the form would need to teach the variants to be practical)
2. The application must make sense (otherwise the form is a detriment if used as a fighting blueprint)

Since I never received answers that met that very simple guideline, I concluded that aesthetics and coordination are the primary purposes of the forms. Because if they're meant to teach application, it isn't there. Some of the ones I've asked about before include:

• Double Knife-Hand Block (Taegeuk 4)
• Low Block to one side, Outside Block to another (Taegeuk 8)
• Crane Stance, Low Block + High Block (Keumgang)
• Double Mountain Block (Keumgang)
• Scissor Block (Taegeuk 7)

I asked before if you've used the motions, as they are in the forms, and you said yes to everything. Maybe there was one you said you hadn't. But then you never provided examples of how you used those techniques. If you want to go back and tell me how these have been used in real sparring, real competitions, or real fights, then that's great. I'll adjust my opinions. But if you can't, then I'm inclined to continue to believe you're just selling Koolaid.

One last thing, regarding confirmation bias: you could argue that you do the same thing by posting here instead of on r/martialarts. If I don't find people that agree with me, then "nobody thinks that way." If I do find people that agree with me, then "I'm looking for confirmation bias." I'm merely showing I'm not the only one that thinks that way.

Responding somewhat in reverse but why do you think I do not respond on reddit? I just have a different screen name.

I honestly do not remember you asking the questions. That is on me.
I think you will not buy this but down, inside, outside, & high blocks are used constantly in sparring. And certainly, a classic jab and reverse punch, in classic form style. No, the blocks are usually not executed as dramatic or fully as in forms. That is why we do them that way in forms; so we have the mechanics. I agree that this is not stressed nearly enough in a full on KKW curriculum. Someone mentioned this earlier, a competition only curriculum is going to be geared that way and will not include other things like self defense and philosophy. So think about this; if given the opportunity would you not do a full block? To rephrase, when I want to punish someone with a block or the stakes are higher (SD vs. competition) I am going to use as much of the form mechanics as possible.

To your specific blocks:

• Double Knife-Hand Block (Taegeuk 4) - Yes in sparring. Think of a front guard and a mid level kick block.
• Low Block to one side, Outside Block to another (Taegeuk 8) - Probably, but not that I can remember off hand. But it does not get much more basic than that does it?
• Crane Stance, Low Block + High Block (Keumgang) - Yes in sparring multiples outside of KKW/WT rules. Avoiding a leg check/sweep and then stepping back and blocking high. Not quite the same but the application is there.
• Double Mountain Block (Keumgang) - No. I agree this has a good amount of expression to it. But they are high blocks (or outside blocks, whichever way you view them) in essence are they not?
• Scissor Block (Taegeuk 7) - Yes. Great disarming tool.

 

[dvcochran]

If you still want to find the answers... they are still there to be found. If you are still open to finding something in the forms, besides aesthetics... there are some ways to go about finding those answers. If you don't want to find the answers any more... you could skip the rest of this post....

If you always do the same thing, you will always get the same result. You have been asking the same questions, in the same framework and you keep finding the same answers. The first step, would be to change your framework... think outside your box. Lets start here:
(not sure why it changed your numbers to bullets...)
The first change is the idea that forms are to be "used as a fighting blueprint." They are not to be used as a fighting blueprint. They are a form of training. Boxers train by jumping rope. Jumping rope is not a blueprint for fighting. The technique for jumping rope is never seen in a fight done exactly as it is done when training. BJJ guys lay on their back and shrimp across the mat... they go left side, right side left side moving linearly down the mat. You will never see this done in a BJJ match or MMA fight. It is also not a blueprint for fighting. While the shrimping technique will be seen in fights, it is rarely if ever done exactly as it is done at the beginning of class. All these things are training tools. They teach skills, and principles and ideas that can be used in fighting. The better you understand the principles, the more ways you can use the principles and skills in a fight.

Lets look at some form stuff. In the forms, we find lots of times where you step forward into front stance while punching. The back leg is straight with the heel down. Exactly how people fighting, hardly ever do. Picking the heel up, bending the knee and driving through the punch is very effective at creating power. However, there is more than one way to develop power. When stepping forward, you are moving your center forward. This creates a bunch of momentum. Done right, if you can harness that momentum and put that into a punch, you can get a pretty powerful punch, without a lot of muscle energy. As you drop down into the front stance, you are lowering your body... again another way to generate power, if you can harness it. Another thing going on is the rotation of the body, generating power. To deliver this power, there must be a root on one side (that rear leg with the heel down). In doing that form version of the punch, you are learning to generate and harvest the power of your momentum, your weight dropping and the rotation. In application, pick the heel up and drive with the back leg... adding in the weight drop, the body momentum and the rotation together.

Looking further at the forms... when we step forward into front stance, we do a number of different things. Lunge punch, reverse punch, down block, up block, mid block inside out and outside in. We also have "composure" moves where you are slowly pressing forward. This allows us to practice generating power quickly and explosively (punches and blocks) and slowly over time ("composure" moves). The punches can go low, middle high. The power can be delivered straight, up to down, down to up, with either hand, and inside out or outside in. Now, there are slight differences in how you harness and transmit that power for each of these... which is why they are included. This then becomes a study of how to generate, harness and transmit the energy. Most of the work is internal. Your legs and pelvis make a very good solid structure. Your shoulders and rib cage make a very solid structure. The two are not very well connected. The spine is the only bone connecting them and it moves in every direction. We also have soft squishy stuff and muscle. Learning to use which muscles, when and how, to connect the upper structure to the lower structure all happens inside. The better you can do that, the better you can generate, harness and deliver power. The is actually a lot going on in these simple and easy to do techniques.

Then you can look at the order and find things in the order. Our first kata starts out: 90 degree left turn, stepping forward into down block, step forward into front stance with lunge punch, 180 degree right turn, step forward into front stance, down block, step forward into front stance with lunge punch, 90 degree left turn, stepping forward with down block, the 3 lunge punches each stepping into front stance. Why that particular order? What can be learned from that pattern of moves? Close distance after you block. (note how I am even using a block as a block here) The best time to close distance, is after they have thrown an attack and before they have recovered. We are drilling in the idea that you close distance quickly (with the lunge punch) but you don't do it blindly, you close behind a technique that keeps the other guy occupied. Blocking their attack and moving behind is a pretty good one to start with. It gets better if that block, can be an attack or take their balance. Many people have to really over come some things, in order to move towards their attacker. Then there is the idea that you set a pattern (down block, punch... down block, punch) and then break the pattern (down block, punch-punch-punch). These are all ideas that can be studied here, while also working on the power issues from above. These ideas and concepts can then show up in any number of places. Just like the power generated can be used in a bunch of different ways.

If you look at the forms, and get rid of the idea that it is for aesthetics... You can look and see what things you can learn. Look closely at the details... but not just those details but the effect of those details. Could those details be over emphasizing and effect elsewhere in your body? Can that effect be used in fighting? Can you learn to take the effect produced by the details in the form, and use that effect?

Look, if you want to just memorize details and conclude that forms are not a blueprint for fighting... thats fine. It won't effect my training at all. But, if you want to appreciate what is in the forms and see what it could do... you are going to have to take a different approach than the one you have been taking... or you will continue to get the same results.

Excellent post. Simply excellent.

 

[wab25]

I'd love to hear an actual application that isn't snake oil.

I will explain this with you standing in a natural stance at the start for simplicity. The attack is a double lapel grab. Some guy is going to grab both of your lapels at the same time to shove you up against a wall or do some throw. Your left hand comes up to your right ear, which goes between his two arms, the right hand goes back to the right as you start to shift into a back stance. This back stance turns you 90 degrees to your left, putting the attacker on your right side and putting you off his center line. The more you drop down into the back stance, the harder it will make his throw, should he get your lapels. Now, when you execute the double knife hand block, your left hand blocks his right hand from grabbing your lapel, your right hand blocks his left hand from grabbing your other lapel. Done with force (which is why the draw back is so emphasized) this should turn and off balance the other guy... he should be turned towards his right. This puts your slightly behind his left shoulder. That right hand block is coming down to cover your solar plexus, which blocks the attackers left arm down and out of the way. From here you could continue, by stepping your right foot behind him, and using your left arm to initiate a rear naked choke. Because your right hand blocked his left arm down, on its route to the solar plexus, your left arm can easily go across his neck for the choke, as you step behind. (the step behind and choke are extra, but it gives reasons for why the right hand comes across and down, it clears the way for the choke right after...)

If you will allow "blocks" to be "strikes" or "open hands" to be "grabs" and "throws" or "locks"... or even the back swing to be used... things get more fun.

 

[dvcochran]

What I mean is a direct, practical application of the movements.

If the movement is teaching you body mechanics instead of legitimate fighting techniques, then it's not a direct application of the movement. The movement serves as a sort of physical parable.

You may use the concepts in body mechanics, but you're not doing that movement in a fight. There's this romanticized version of martial arts that you are acting out a fight when you do kata, which is what I'm arguing against.

A Whole lot to learn in parables.

 

[dvcochran]

R/martialarts is MMA biased. R/Taekwondo is mostly TKD folk.

I moved on because I did not find the answers I was looking for. It offends you that I didn't just blindly accept what you had to say. This was always a sticking point for you, that I didn't drink your koolaid. Apparently it still is. Get over yourself.

Also exactly why I said tweeners and MMA.

 

[Flying Crane]

And that's what I did. If I can't find a use for it, I deemed it impractical. I ruffled a lot of feathers by doing so...

Ok i watched the video clip again that I found of that form, with the crane stance. The upper block movement, it is a rising/clearing block across the front, defending the face. You don’t need to attach it to the crane stance and the rest of it. You can view it simply on its own, defending the front and the face.

Where you insert it in your own use is up to you. It doesn’t need to be complex. In fact it’s better if it is not complex.

 

[skribs]

Responding somewhat in reverse but why do you think I do not respond on reddit? I just have a different screen name.

I honestly do not remember you asking the questions. That is on me.
I think you will not buy this but down, inside, outside, & high blocks are used constantly in sparring. And certainly, a classic jab and reverse punch, in classic form style. No, the blocks are usually not executed as dramatic or fully as in forms. That is why we do them that way in forms; so we have the mechanics. I agree that this is not stressed nearly enough in a full on KKW curriculum. Someone mentioned this earlier, a competition only curriculum is going to be geared that way and will not include other things like self defense and philosophy. So think about this; if given the opportunity would you not do a full block? To rephrase, when I want to punish someone with a block or the stakes are higher (SD vs. competition) I am going to use as much of the form mechanics as possible.

Those blocks I have no problem with. Where I start to have issue is at the advanced form. I've heard a lot of times that the advanced level is where you stop learning techniques, and start learning application. But my experience with Taekwondo is at the advanced level, you keep learning techniques, they're just more complicated techniques with less practical application.

Double Knife-Hand Block (Taegeuk 4) - Yes in sparring. Think of a front guard and a mid level kick block.

Why is your support hand palm-up in this case? Why is it touching your solar plexus instead of away from your body to prevent the kick from landing?

Low Block to one side, Outside Block to another (Taegeuk 8) - Probably, but not that I can remember off hand. But it does not get much more basic than that does it?

Uh...how is that "basic?" You're blocking two attacks on complete opposite corners. It makes 0 sense to me in a real-world setting. The explanation I usually hear is "blocking 2 attacks from 2 enemies", which leads me into my 2nd requirement - that the application make sense.

Crane Stance, Low Block + High Block (Keumgang) - Yes in sparring multiples outside of KKW/WT rules. Avoiding a leg check/sweep and then stepping back and blocking high. Not quite the same but the application is there.

I can easily see the application for each of those moves. But the timing in the form suggests they should be done all at once. If my opponent goes for a leg kick, body kick, head punch combo, then crane stance, down block, high block is an effective dodging/blocking strategy. But done all at once, as in the form, it makes no sense.

Double Mountain Block (Keumgang) - No. I agree this has a good amount of expression to it. But they are high blocks (or outside blocks, whichever way you view them) in essence are they not?

We use a block that moves in a similar direction, but the mechanics are different. We start both arms at the shoulder (instead of one at the hip), and our hands stay within about 6 inches from each other (instead of all the way across). If we did the block as in the form, one of our hands would be nowhere near the block. I can also see a similar motion for a block and hammerfist combination, but then the angle of the hammerfist is wrong (your elbow would get in the way).

Scissor Block (Taegeuk 7) - Yes. Great disarming tool.

I'll agree that scissor motions are great for disarms. However, in my experience it's usually a rolling motion instead of a crossing motion (i.e. block, hook, roll instead of crossing). The times we use a scissor motion for a disarm it's a scissor with the hands, instead of the arms.

I also see similar principles in the scissors block as in one of our blocks at blue belt. It doesn't have a name in our school, but I call it the side cross block. One arm protects your ribs and side, the other arm protects your face and neck. It's useful against roundhouse kicks. You can also snap your hands shut like an alligator's mouth and catch the leg real easy (if you go outside the realm of KKW sparring). Where I see similarity between the scissor block is in lining up the elbows between the down block and the higher block. But it's a completely different motion.

I say this to say that I see how the principles can be learned. I just don't see how the exact technique can be used.

I will explain this with you standing in a natural stance at the start for simplicity. The attack is a double lapel grab. Some guy is going to grab both of your lapels at the same time to shove you up against a wall or do some throw. Your left hand comes up to your right ear, which goes between his two arms, the right hand goes back to the right as you start to shift into a back stance. This back stance turns you 90 degrees to your left, putting the attacker on your right side and putting you off his center line. The more you drop down into the back stance, the harder it will make his throw, should he get your lapels. Now, when you execute the double knife hand block, your left hand blocks his right hand from grabbing your lapel, your right hand blocks his left hand from grabbing your other lapel. Done with force (which is why the draw back is so emphasized) this should turn and off balance the other guy... he should be turned towards his right. This puts your slightly behind his left shoulder. That right hand block is coming down to cover your solar plexus, which blocks the attackers left arm down and out of the way. From here you could continue, by stepping your right foot behind him, and using your left arm to initiate a rear naked choke. Because your right hand blocked his left arm down, on its route to the solar plexus, your left arm can easily go across his neck for the choke, as you step behind. (the step behind and choke are extra, but it gives reasons for why the right hand comes across and down, it clears the way for the choke right after...)

If you will allow "blocks" to be "strikes" or "open hands" to be "grabs" and "throws" or "locks"... or even the back swing to be used... things get more fun.

Three problems with this:

1. The double-knife hand block, as done in TKD forms, is a lateral movement. The right hand block isn't coming down. It's coming straight in.
2. If I'm going to trap their hand down, I'll either want my palm facing in (to trap against my body) or down (to help feel his movement and zone him out). I don't see any reason to do that with the palm up, as the form would suggest.
3. Your right arm is going to get in your own way if you're going for that RNC. If you get your right arm out of the way, then you've lost control over their arm.

This is what I mean by the boxer's punch on a heavy bag makes sense, where the techniques in the forms don't. A boxer will have to adjust to hit his opponent, but other than adjustments to his aim, the technique on a heavy bag is solid. The techniques as done in the form need to be adjusted just to make proper use of the body mechanics to apply them to the application you see.

A Whole lot to learn in parables.

Exactly my point. I'm not at all saying that forms are bad. I'm saying the techniques, as done in the forms are done for aesthetics and body mechanics. The body mechanics are certainly useful. But to do the techniques as they are in the forms is folly.

Now, here is my understanding of those techniques mentioned above, with this idea in mind:

• Double Knife-Hand Block (Taegeuk 4) - helps teach moving your upper body momentum to one side of the stance (as opposed to a regular knife-hand block, where your upper body remains neutral, as one arm goes out to the block, and the other hand goes back to the chamber position)
• Low Block to one side, Outside Block to another (Taegeuk 8) - Off the top of my head, I equate this as the martial arts version of rubbing your tummy and patting your head.
• Crane Stance, Low Block + High Block (Keumgang) - the crane stance is a balance exercise. The blocks are mainly to do something with your hands while balancing, and they look pretty cool.
• Double Mountain Block (Keumgang) - Similar mechanics as the double knife-hand block, except you're turning in with the step instead of turning out with the step.
• Scissor Block (Taegeuk 7) - Helps with scissor motions (which can be disarms, or scissor sweeps), as well as controlling the levels of your blocks (matching the elbow of your down block to the elbow of your outside block).

I can see a purpose for these. Just not a direct application.

Also exactly why I said tweeners and MMA.

Except that's r/MMA, not r/Taekwondo. Except for one guy on r/Taekwondo, but nobody likes him because all he does is put down TKD.

Ok i watched the video clip again that I found of that form, with the crane stance. The upper block movement, it is a rising/clearing block across the front, defending the face. You don’t need to attach it to the crane stance and the rest of it. You can view it simply on its own, defending the front and the face.

Where you insert it in your own use is up to you. It doesn’t need to be complex. In fact it’s better if it is not complex.

But you do need to attach it when you're doing Keumgang. The suggestion in the form is that they are together. It's impossible to view it on its own when watching someone do Keumgang, unless you only see them from the shoulder up. Otherwise, you see the down block as well.