Questions First: What do you want to know about kicks?

[pdg]

The side kick has the following weakness:

- You will have one long leading arm and one short back arm at that moment. If your opponent uses your leading arm to jam your back arm, you will be in trouble.
- It's easier for your opponent to catch at your ankle.

The roundhouse kick is easy to be caught.

The front kick doesn't have these issues.

IMO, front kick > side kick > roundhouse kick.

I'd change the order for me and how I kick.

And I'd change the order again if I'm using the other leg.

And I'd change the order again depending on who I'm facing.

And I'd probably disagree with the arm references as to side kick weaknesses, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean...

Thing is, there's not one blanket side kick formula - I'm aware of (and practice) at least 4 variants (and probably 6+ sub variants) of tkd side kick - different 'chamber', different execution, different intent and different recovery. Also, different advantages and weaknesses that are entirely situational, and bear in mind the variants don't take into account how they're set up or whether anything else follows.

Same with a roundhouse - although I call it a turning kick, because a roundhouse is a turning kick variant. There's not just one type.

 

[pdg]

Then there's the fact that they CAN be a pushing kick. Have you tried doing a pushing hook kick or roundhouse kick?

Pushing hook kick, yes.

Although technically it's pulling

It's probably not valid if you're being all spinny when you do it, but if you start from a front kick chamber, transition to a side kick (which is actually a side piercing kick anyway) beside the head and then hook and pull it works well (it's easier to do than to explain...) Very little impact, but a fair bit of force.

Pushing turning kick? Can't see that being a thing...

 

[Buka]

I am referring to the front or lead leg side kicks.

Rear leg side kicks shouldn't even be thought about, never mind thrown. At least not in any kind of fighting scenario.

 

[dvcochran]

Questions I tend to anticipate:

1. Why do I have to/how much should I pivot my base foot?

2. What is the correct foot position for the kicking foot?

3. Why does Taekwondo perform this kick differently than ...?

4. How do I apply this kick?


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Ideally, on a side kick you want to pivot the foot 180°making it easier to get the hips and shoulders over so that the entire body is in line with the kicking foot. You return your knee back to the chamber position so that you have the choice to either return the kicking leg to the back foot or step forward.
On a roundhouse pivot the foot 90° to 120°. The body does not have to rotate as much and it makes a return to back leg easier which is much more common with a roundhouse when sparring.

 

[dvcochran]

Rear leg side kicks shouldn't even be thought about, never mind thrown. At least not in any kind of fighting scenario.

I have to disagree primarily because of spinning kicks coming from the rear leg. They are common in WTF sparring as a counter-kick.

 

[dvcochran]

This isn't how my son's school teaches it.

Instead it's:

1. Raise knee in front of you until thigh is parallel with ground and lower leg is perpendicular to ground (Chamber position)
2 kick out as you rotate your hip driving your kick forward with your leg ending somewhat parallel to ground. with toes slightly angled down (due to rotation of hip)
3 Reverse the action of #2 ending back in the chamber position
4 Put your foot down steping into your normal stance.

We teach driving the knee up as high and as fast as you can gaining momentum for the pivot and the hip. The rest of the mechanics is the same. Knee high is also a defensive position. High front kick, roundhouse, and side kick all chamber the same making it harder to predict what kick is coming.

 

[CB Jones]

We teach driving the knee up as high and as fast as you can gaining momentum for the pivot and the hip. The rest of the mechanics is the same. Knee high is also a defensive position. High front kick, roundhouse, and side kick all chamber the same making it harder to predict what kick is coming.

Its the same....Bringing it up parallel is more of the minimum for testing.

Although Jake usually keeps it around parallel making it just a little faster.

 

[CB Jones]

I have to disagree primarily because of spinning kicks coming from the rear leg. They are common in WTF sparring as a counter-kick.

But that's more of a spinning back kick though isn't it?

 

[Flying Crane]

Rear leg side kicks shouldn't even be thought about, never mind thrown. At least not in any kind of fighting scenario.

Agreed. I tend to think of side kicks to be used against a bad guy who...comes up on you from the side...

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

But that's more of a spinning back kick though isn't it?

There are spinning back kicks, and spinning side kicks...2 separate kicks. Although i would argue when its spinning, its no longer a rear leg side kick when you actually throw it...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if I kick im done.

I don't try to catch front kick. It's too risky. But I will try to catch all roundhouse kick and side kick. When I competed in Karate tournament, whenever I saw a side kick comes toward me, I would have a big smile on my face. Because I knew that I could block that side kick, pulled his ankle, moved in, jammed his leading arm, and punched my fist on his face.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ok, serious question then. Advantages and disadvantages of chambering a round kick?

To chamber a roundhouse kick makes no sense.

Roundhouse kick is like to swing a stick toward your opponent. When I swing my stick toward my opponent, I will never consider to pull my stick back.

If my roundhouse kick

- hit the target, I'll put my body weight behind it.
- miss the target, I'll change it into side kick.

I'll never pull my roundhouse kick back.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

To chamber a roundhouse kick makes no sense.

Roundhouse kick is like to swing a stick toward your opponent. When I swing my stick toward my opponent, I will never consider to pull my stick back.

If my roundhouse kick

- hit the target, I'll put my body weight behind it.
- miss the target, I'll change it into side kick.

I'll never pull my roundhouse kick back.

Even the chamber that I do do (which is more because I'm not confident in my kicks), it's more of a transition period that I label a chamber than an actual chamber in itself.

 

[Martial D]

In WC, our kicks come from the ground. My first MT coach taught not to chamber either.

My MMA coach though swears by the chamber(he has some tkd background). Our chamber is a universal position from which all kicks are thrown. The theory is that there is less telegraph because it's a shorter distance to the target, and you don't know if it's going to be a tepe,round, back, or side kick coming from it.

Personally I think both are fine methods situationally, I just wanted to hear a resident TKD ninjas take.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

In WC, our kicks come from the ground. My first MT coach taught not to chamber either.

My MMA coach though swears by the chamber(he has some tkd background). Our chamber is a universal position from which all kicks are thrown. The theory is that there is less telegraph because it's a shorter distance to the target, and you don't know if it's going to be a tepe,round, back, or side kick coming from it.

Personally I think both are fine methods situationally, I just wanted to hear a resident TKD ninjas take.

You pretty much nailed the answer to your own question, regarding why to chamber. Curious if a TKDist can come up with any good reasons why he wouldn't...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Given this information, I guess I will go tell my Shotokan Sensei that he is doing it and teaching it wrong. He is teaching us to use the ball of the foot for our front kicks. He must be confused. He will be glad to learn that his Sensei (Sensei Takahashi) goofed, and taught him TKD by accident.... using the ball of the foot in a front kick. What would he know?

Don't let it worry him. The TKD front kick, as we teach it in the Moo Duk Kwan, may use the ball of the foot, the instep, or the heel, depending on range and target.

 

[Martial D]

You pretty much nailed the answer to your own question, regarding why to chamber. Curious if a TKDist can come up with any good reasons why he wouldn't...

Ya, I understand the pros and cons, but I'm not a pro kicker. Honestly I prefer not to chamber most times.

I just wanted his perspective.

 

[skribs]

Mui Thai boxers tend not to chamber, and they get a ton of power in them.

I'm watching it at 0.25 speed. They are chambering. Especially the higher kicks. There is a half-chamber in the lower kicks. So if anything, it's for kicking lower. But there's still a chamber and the quads are engaged in the kick.

This was specifically taught for roundhouse, just to clarify, other kicks would be chambered. And you've likely not been taught it as we practice different styles.

It appears to me there is a chamber, it's just shorter and lower. And the benefit of that chamber is it's faster on lower kicks.

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@CB Jones @Jaeimseu @Buka

My experience is that any kick can be made fast or powerful by training, but you also have to compare it to the other kicks. My front kick is going to be stronger than the side kick of our white belts. That doesn't mean the front kick is strong compared to side kick. If I train the front kick and ignore the side kick, it will be my stronger kick. But if I train both, then my side kick will always be stronger, front kick always faster.

Now, as to rear leg vs. front-leg. Front leg is like a jab (in more ways than one). It's faster, but weaker, than a rear leg kick (this is another concept I wanted to cover). Different kicks are affected in different ways. The side kick loses some power, but gains a LOT of speed, because you're already angled right for it. The roundhouse kick gains some speed, but loses a lot of power because you've lost the turning in your body. Front kicks are probably going to be done in more of a cat stance and will be a bit more defensive.

The front-leg side kick is often a brake check for your opponent, a way to block their distance-closing moves (and is an example of a kick you would do with a slighter chamber). While it can be powerful, I feel a back kick doesn't sacrifice much in terms of speed and can deliver more power than a front-leg side kick.

Question: would a step-behind side-kick be considered a front-leg or rear-leg side kick?

The safest kick is the foot sweep. Even if you don't sweep your opponent down, it can interrupt your opponent's forward attack.

The next safest kick is front kick to the knee joint. If your opponent tries to catch it, both of your hands can hit on his face.

A lot of arts treat kicks as lower-body attacks only, or lower-body attacks primarily. I get why they do that.

Although if the foot sweep is part of a throw, I don't personally consider it a kick. I consider it a grappling technique, and kicks are striking techniques. But that's because most of the sweeps we do at my school are involved in steps and stance changes, so it feels more like footwork than kicking to me.

Regarding wrestling - maybe initiating with a kick is a bad idea, but if he shoots for a leg takedown I imagine a knee to the face would be quite the crimp in his plans. A wrestler also has 2 arms vs. a striker's 4 legs. So if you kick low and he goes down for your leg, as you said - punch his face.

The side kick has the following weakness:

- You will have one long leading arm and one short back arm at that moment. If your opponent uses your leading arm to jam your back arm, you will be in trouble.
- It's easier for your opponent to catch at your ankle.

The roundhouse kick is easy to be caught.

The front kick doesn't have these issues.

IMO, front kick > side kick > roundhouse kick.

I can catch all 3 kicks easy. Roundhouse kick - move in close and grab the thigh. Front kick - move off to either side and grab under the knee. Side kick - depends whether you go inside or outside of it. With the roundhouse kick and side kick you're at least at an angle and have better balance. With the front kick it's easier to fold you over backwards on your knee.

When you execute the side kick, you're actually pointing away from the opponent. It would be very hard for your opponent to jam your arms. It would be easier in the other kicks. And, since your body is turned, you can easily turn the other way and attack with a spinning elbow, spinning chop, or spinning backfist. Or use your other hand to trap theirs and spin to lock their wrist or elbow and take them down.

Each kick has its pros and cons. Front kicks are fast and do a good job of hitting soft targets or snapping the head back. Roundhouse kicks just accumulate pain over time. Side kicks (and front kicks) can be used as crowd control to push people or block people, or can be used for devastating blows to the stomach or face. Roundhouse kicks also set up spinning kicks quite well. Which one I use depends on my situation, distance, intended target, intended result, the capabilities of my opponent, and the rules (or lack thereof) that I am fighting under.

 

[skribs]

Pushing hook kick, yes.

Although technically it's pulling

It's probably not valid if you're being all spinny when you do it, but if you start from a front kick chamber, transition to a side kick (which is actually a side piercing kick anyway) beside the head and then hook and pull it works well (it's easier to do than to explain...) Very little impact, but a fair bit of force.

Pushing turning kick? Can't see that being a thing...

Pulling and pushing are two different things. I'm talking about pushing someone away. But that is an interesting point you bring up.

Rear leg side kicks shouldn't even be thought about, never mind thrown. At least not in any kind of fighting scenario.

Would you consider a step-behind side kick a rear leg or front-leg kick?

The rear-leg side kick is useful as a setup for the double-back kick (which is the back-kick version of the jab-cross).

I have to disagree primarily because of spinning kicks coming from the rear leg. They are common in WTF sparring as a counter-kick.

But that's more of a spinning back kick though isn't it?

There are spinning back kicks, and spinning side kicks...2 separate kicks. Although i would argue when its spinning, its no longer a rear leg side kick when you actually throw it...

I find the spinning side kick is better for going around a guard, back kick is better for going through a guard.

We teach driving the knee up as high and as fast as you can gaining momentum for the pivot and the hip. The rest of the mechanics is the same. Knee high is also a defensive position. High front kick, roundhouse, and side kick all chamber the same making it harder to predict what kick is coming.

Chambering a side-kick horizontal will give you more strength and pushing power, and is easier to strike with the heel. Chambering vertical will give you more speed and penetrating power, and is easier to strike with the blade of the foot.

I don't try to catch front kick. It's too risky. But I will try to catch all roundhouse kick and side kick. When I competed in Karate tournament, whenever I saw a side kick comes toward me, I would have a big smile on my face. Because I knew that I could block that side kick, pulled his ankle, moved in, jammed his leading arm, and punched my fist on his face.

You're talking about recoil. Chamber is what you do before the kick.

And if you recoil the roundhouse you can still side-kick from there. In fact, it's faster because you don't hit the ground.


The video you posted is literally called "Catch Front Kick" and shows a front kick being caught.

If you caught a side kick doing that and closed in, I'd drop my hips to the ground and sweep your leg with my free leg. Scissor motion with the other to knock you down.

To chamber a roundhouse kick makes no sense.

Roundhouse kick is like to swing a stick toward your opponent. When I swing my stick toward my opponent, I will never consider to pull my stick back.

If my roundhouse kick

- hit the target, I'll put my body weight behind it.
- miss the target, I'll change it into side kick.

I'll never pull my roundhouse kick back.

Of course, if you're aiming down like they are, then it becomes less of an issue (similar to chambering). Your momentum is already going down, it doesn't make sense to redirect it back up to recoil. But if you're doing a low kick that's moving horizontally, then a slight recoil on the way down is a good idea.

In WC, our kicks come from the ground. My first MT coach taught not to chamber either.

My MMA coach though swears by the chamber(he has some tkd background). Our chamber is a universal position from which all kicks are thrown. The theory is that there is less telegraph because it's a shorter distance to the target, and you don't know if it's going to be a tepe,round, back, or side kick coming from it.

Personally I think both are fine methods situationally, I just wanted to hear a resident TKD ninjas take.

The chamber still comes from the ground. It's just a path from ground to enemy that gets more muscles involved. As a white belt it's chamber - pause - kick. As a black belt you pass through the chamber in a smooth motion to kick.

Even a jumping kick, done properly, the power comes from the ground, because you're pushing off of the ground to give yourself the momentum you swing through.

If you do happen to pause the chamber*, I'd argue your power STILL comes from the ground, because the chamber is like a spring coiling from the initial motion to uncoil in the kick, and your other leg still presses on the ground to give it the power. You do lose momentum, and you do lose some of the energy in the kick, but the power is still coming from the ground.

*Reasons to pause the chamber include: faking (I've used a chamber as a sort of changeup-pitch to throw off the timing of blocks before), timing, reading your opponent as he responds to your leg moving, using the chamber to block a kick, and that's off the top of my head.

 

[marques]

One think I think is laking in instruction and practitionners is how to train. I have seen people going hard and fast performing ridiculous moves pretending it is a kick. I have seen people trying to learn a full kick in minutes (and getting frustrated).

What I would like to see more often is how to train, decomposing the kick in steps. I have been successful (as much as I had the chance to instruct partners) in teaching kicks in three 'steps': 1. Touch the target, 2. Puch the target, 3. Power. It would make more sense with some more explanations and video.

So, I would like to see this kind of things in video. I am sure there is people skilled enough for that out there.

PS: Another thing often missing is when and why to use each kick. Because there are plenty of variations and people just get confused thinking some are wrong and one is more right than others.