power, or agility and speed. In your opinion, which is more desirable?

[mook jong man]

Yes , Wing Chun practitioners are fast.
But it is not so much the individual speed of the practitioner , it is the system itself that is fast.
All striking is so directly aimed at the opponent without any hint of a pre movement , and to the eye that appears as very fast.

Eventually after years of training the practitioner will only make minimal gains in speed , despite reaching deeper levels of relaxation.
But what continues to improve as time goes by is the stance , the percentage of bodyweight that will be transferred by the stance into the striking limbs will continue to increase.

As the waist is strengthened , pivoting and coordination in stepping becomes more efficient and thus more striking power will be produced as well as the ability to turn away heavy incoming force with less effort.

The problem seems to be that people think that because Wing Chun punches are fast that they are somehow sacrificing power for speed , this is not the case.

People are judging Wing Chun by the methods that their own martial arts use to generate power , because they don't see any torquing of the upper body they think how could those punches possibly have power.
This line of thinking is flawed , Wing Chun uses a totally different method of generating force powered by the Yee Chi Kim Yeung Ma stance.

The stance focuses the body mass of the person in a triangular structure to the centerline , then by rapid acceleration of the body forward in stepping or by a sharp pivot of the entire body ,power is produced.

One could consider the structure of a Wing Chun punch this way , imagine a metal pole sticking out horizontally from a brick wall.
The pole is the arm positioned on the centreline and the brick wall is the body mass or stance directly behind the arm that reinforces the structure of the arm and transmits power.

Regarding chain punching , it is meant to be used while rapidly stepping forward , going through the opponent like a laser beam.
You don't just stand there in the one spot flailing your arms away totally ignoring the fact that your earlier punches might have driven the opponent back out of range , drive your stance forward rapidly as you punch.

Another thing that is commonly portrayed is just chain punching by itself , unless your fighting some compliant puppet or someone who uses a massive haymaker , then some wrist latching will be used as the person reacting to the punches will try to raise there arms and block in an effort to stop the punches to their face.

Wrist latching combined with chain punching will allow you to rip his arms down and open the path for further striking , it also pulls him into your punches and stops him from trying to get out of range.

Finally my late Sifu Jim Fung ,had about forty years of training before he passed away a few years ago from throat cancer , he could blaze away at over ten punches a second.

There is no doubt in my mind that if he used all his power and seriously hit you in the head , be it with one punch or ten , the end result would be the same you would be dead.

The man had through many years of training in Wing Chun learned to maximize the use of his body mass , you weren't just being hit by an extremely fast moving fist , you were being hit by his whole body.

 

[Flying Crane]

With a lean athletic build, 5 foot 7 inches ( only 18, so not done with puberty yet, I pray to god that I grow ), and have generally small easy to move body parts, it was obvious that I would go for speed over power myself.

You do realize that if you understand how to properly root and engage the full body with your techniqus, then you do not need to be big in order to have lots of power...

 

[Rich Parsons]

QFT

Without good sense of TIMING -including the ability to interpret and work off rhythm- all the other factors will be rendered partially ineffective.

I would also add ACCURACY into the set of core skills that need to be worked on BEFORE developing either power OR speed. If one cannot target accurately then the worth of power and speed in offence is greatly diminished. Likewise if one cannot with some accuracy predetermine direction of incoming strikes then one may move inadvertently into further strikes.

Anyways out of those three: power, speed or agility, AGILITY -that is, proper footwork, movement and fitness- is #1. However the caveat is that it is only #1 ALONG WITH timing and accuracy. IMO

Jenna beat me to the post I wanted to make.

Timing.

You can be as fast as you want or as powerful as you want but if you are too early or too late it does not matter.

Timing.


Now, timing takes time to learn and you have to know the technique first to practice it and get it at time. So one has to learn stance, movement, base, frame, power, agility, speed (* including at first going slow *) to get timing.

Control is another one. Do you want to hurt or break? Do you want to demonstrate or end the encounter?

I look at accuracy as part of the technique inconjunction with timing. If you do the technique correctly and on time then you can be accurate. Yet, it still should be mentioned as it was. I also want to reiterate that slow and smooth is good. (* yes you can still use frame and power and be slow and smooth. You may not have as much force with out the velocity but while learning it is good to go slow. Ranger saying: "Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast" *)

 

[CoreyMinchin]

I think speed is good as long as you have accuracy but if you only had one then power would probably be the most help to you. Again, agility is good if you're accurate (with kicks to the head etc.). I guess it depends on the person but I would favour speed as you beating your opponent to a move could save serious injury on your part.

 

[Gemini]

I think speed is good as long as you have accuracy but if you only had one then power would probably be the most help to you. Again, agility is good if you're accurate (with kicks to the head etc.). I guess it depends on the person but I would favour speed as you beating your opponent to a move could save serious injury on your part.

Funny thing my instructor told me when I began sparring, which always stuck.

Only one person can be the fastest. What are you going to do if you're not that person, lose? That's not a plan.

 

[chinto]

Timing is the most important, as to speed vs power, both need to be there, but agility too. The thing is each will find over time what mix of power and speed and agility works for them to achieve timing and accuracy of strikes or grabs depending on the art. for the smaller person, agility is very important, but so is it to some extent to the larger fighter. system used has some impute on how you do things as well.

My advise, for what its worth.. about 1/2 a cent provably, is just go and train hard in your system. as you train and develop your skill you will find the mix that works for you.

 

[K-man]

You do not need a lot of conventional strength and power to deliver devastating strikes. I like Steve Burton's material and I have been hit with one of these punches from a Systema guy (Alex Kostic). I was still feeling the effects of one 'soft' hit fifteen minutes later.

 

[Kenlee25]

I believe your view of Wing Chun is not valid and perhaps based on misinformation.

The Ng Wing Chun legend is just that, a legend. It is starting to become accepted more likely it is just a myth. What is known is Wing Chun was created in the mid-1600's. It was used to train soldiers to proficency quicker than the animal systems taught at that time. The soldiers trained were to be rebels against the Manchu government in place, so secrecy was of great importance. There are many more details that have been discoverd, but this is the bare bones.

The signiture chain punch that you refer to is not what most people believe it is. For most people outside of a quality Wing Chun system do not even do it correctly. The elbows are out of alignment, robbing the power of the punches. The way it is practiced by most people it is a TRAINING excercise. In a fight, it is not used as seen by most people. The reason is because if the alignment is correct, and Wing Chun principles are followed, you will effect your opponent with the first contact. In some cases chain punching might be the proper tool to follow with, but in most cases the range has changed so that is not the correct tool. Chain punches are great for training to continue following up until the threat is dealt with.

Good Wing Chun teaches that anytime you make contact with your opponent, you effect his structure, making him go into recovery mode, or ending the confrontation all together. If you must continue, you keep your opponent trying to recover, until your opponent is no longer a threat, then you move on. Like many Chinese martial arts, the power is relaxed until delivered. If the structure is in proper alignment, all forward energy from the entire body is delivered into the point of contact. This keeps the power delivery smooth and potent, while keeping muscle tension from slowing down the delivery. Efficiency is also stressed, meaning a good Wing Chun player will do more with less movement, giving the illusion of great speed. Does this sound like a system that would rely on speed in the stead of applied power?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it annoys me a bit when the art I practice is misrepresented. I know it is not malicious, but it is still incorrect. It also gives the wrong impression to people who do not know any better about Wing Chun. It is designed to deliver very powerful strikes, when strikes are the techniques chosen. The hardest I've been hit on a consistant basis is in my Wing Chun training. Keep in mind that I have done some western boxing and many years in animal styles, including Tiger and Dragon, systems known for thier power generation. If you cannot see the power in Wing Chun, then you do not yet know what you are looking at, or you are viewing inferior Wing Chun.

I will keep that in mind sir. I had a friend who practiced the art of wing chun, and between the two of us My strikes always seemed more powerful. Maybe it is as you say and I have been tainted by bad views.

You do realize that if you understand how to properly root and engage the full body with your techniqus, then you do not need to be big in order to have lots of power...

Yes I do. I'm just stating which comes more natural too me is all. Considering I almost broke this girl's ribs in sparring once putting maybe 2/3 power into a side kick, yeah I understand the whole body mechanics thing.

 

[Kenlee25]

Is this what I would call 'broken timing'?

That concept itself is something I've really been trying to work on. It's difficult to say the least.

 

[K-man]

That concept itself is something I've really been trying to work on. It's difficult to say the least.

Even people who have trained for years don't get it. Most people clash when they are in conflict. This means that you are now relying on strength. Broken timing allows you to bypass your opponent's strength and overcome without the need of power.