Power? Speed? Agility?

[jthomas1600]

In another thread I made this statement: But I know that generating max power is not always the most important aspect (right?), sometimes speed, balance, fluidity, etc is more important?

Dancingalone responded with this: It's a matter of training methodology. I personally believe you should develop power first and foremost. Once you understand how to combine speed, timing, and proper use of mass and muscle contraction for fight-ending power, I think the other desirable characteristics like grace and efficiency can be developed next.

I had not thought too much before about how an instructor would prioritize the teaching of these attributes. I'm only posting this because I'm confident it will not turn into a "my way is better than your way" debate. Since there are many ways to skin a cat I'm just curious as to how others approach this.

Thanks, Joe

 

[terryl965]

I focus on technique first and I am a believer that power will come from proper technique in TKD. My instructors believe this and preached it and I do as they have.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I focus on technique first and I am a believer that power will come from proper technique in TKD. My instructors believe this and preached it and I do as they have.

I agree, look at most students who are struggling to develop enough power and you will usually notice that their technique is incorrect or sloppy. Early on, repetition is the key to grasping the techs and their is no use practicing a roundhouse kick over and over if the technique is incorrecet or you are just ingraining the incorrect technique into your muscle memory. I believe technique comes first.

 

[puunui]

When talking about striking techniques, the goal is to be able to deliver maximum force without injuring yourself. There are many approaches to getting there. Certainly having a proper stance and proper footwork are essential to getting you into a position where you can deliver your strike. Otherwise you end up like fixed artillery or a tank without gas. Next is developing methods in which to put as much body weight behind the strike as possible. Force = Mass * speed, so putting weight behind your blows adds force. After you learn to put your weight behind your blows, then you can work on explosive speed. This involves some sort of overload system, whether sprints, weights, springs, rubber bands, plyometric drills, etc. Throughout all of this, you should be working on ways to deliver your blows without injuring yourself. This includes stretching (pulling muscles is injuring yourself) as well as toughening not only your striking limb (for example, makiwara or kwon go training, or a variation of it), but your entire body, as well as learning ways to protect yourself before, during and after the blow is delivered.

 

[puunui]

I agree, look at most students who are struggling to develop enough power and you will usually notice that their technique is incorrect or sloppy. Early on, repetition is the key to grasping the techs and their is no use practicing a roundhouse kick over and over if the technique is incorrecet or you are just ingraining the incorrect technique into your muscle memory. I believe technique comes first.

And the instructor's job is to give the student the right visual, auditory or sensory cue to model such that proper form is achieved. Some students respond to simple demonstration by the instructor. Others need verbal commands (turn your body, pivot your foot, etc.). Others need sensory cues (tighten your arm pit on your punch, when on the inside, push this way with your hand, draw a reaction and pivot off that to get into scoring position). Teaching beginning students, it is best to as much as possible to try to combine all three styles so that all the students can relate.

 

[searcher]

I agree with Ralph and Terry on technique being the most important piece. If your technique is spot on, then there is more efficiency of movement and the ability to transfer more energy into the target. This also allows you to be able to move in and out more rapidly, this can be percieved as an increase in agility.

 

[jthomas1600]

I didn't get the impression from Dancingalones comment that he was advocating power before technique. I got the impression that what he meant was: focusing on different aspects of technique will develop different attributes (like power, fluidity, speed, etc.) and that he focused on the aspect of technique that would develop power first and then tweaked the others later.

 

[dancingalone]

I didn't get the impression from Dancingalones comment that he was advocating power before technique. I got the impression that what he meant was: focusing on different aspects of technique will develop different attributes (like power, fluidity, speed, etc.) and that he focused on the aspect of technique that would develop power first and then tweaked the others later.

You've got it!

IMO, saying we should focus on proper technique is stating the obvious. No one would intentionally train bad technique. After all, it does take good technique to be powerful or speedy or efficient or balanced or unpredictable or any of the other qualities desirable. So saying you focus on 'technique' means you work on everything which isn't conducive to formulating lesson plans with specific goals in mind. Instead we need to add another word/phrase in there like good technique for 'maximum power' or for 'optimal positional recovery'. Good technique in those two situations might be decidedly different, no?

So from a training design perspective, which quality would you pick first to emphasize when teaching a beginner for the first time? I say power. Why? It's arguably a simpler series of lessons for newbies yet the lessons learned set the student up for latter success.

Emphasizing power at the beginning means you are teaching the student to

• move their mass forward with their strikes
• use proper stances instead of some generic 'fighting stance'
• how to properly relax and contract various muscle groups from the legs to the shoulders/arms to create force
• unleash the beast mentally so to speak

When you learn these lessons and you are crushing the heavy bag, then it's time to emphasize something else. And it doesn't matter whether you are going for speed or balance or whatever else, the lessons learned here will help with the other characteristics too or at the very least, they will be neutral towards the new objective. And there's the added bonus of learning power correctly in the first place - other people may find differently, but my personal experience leads me to believe those who study in this way just tend to be more effective strikers than those who pursue a more general training methodology.

 

[andyjeffries]

Force = Mass * speed

Force = mass * acceleration - Newton's 2nd law of motion

Momentum = mass * speed - Descartes

I have often heard it said that Force = mass * speed, but it's physically incorrect.

The principles behind the rest of the explanation I agree with about putting a higher percentage of your weight behind a strike adds to the power.

I often find that beginners don't immediately grasp that you can choose how much of your weight to put behind a strike (they think they weight the same no matter how fast they move their hands/feet so they're only adjusting one variable). A demonstration often clarifies for them ;-)

 

[Earl Weiss]

And the instructor's job is to give the student the right visual, auditory or sensory cue to model such that proper form is achieved. Some students respond to simple demonstration by the instructor. Others need verbal commands (turn your body, pivot your foot, etc.). Others need sensory cues (tighten your arm pit on your punch, when on the inside, push this way with your hand, draw a reaction and pivot off that to get into scoring position). Teaching beginning students, it is best to as much as possible to try to combine all three styles so that all the students can relate.

Read something like this once
http://371078645507472465-a-1802744...IcL9FoKMYkVJax2SXljcDL8q8Lhg==&attredirects=0

 

[chrispillertkd]

Read something like this once
http://371078645507472465-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/ntkdacad/files/Vol_15_Master_Weiss.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cq3ecSk-aC6o_cQ0e5wXdHUiyRSEwAbCFgR-lnf1bQvLGRXVSd-YJquzYmbeillOzTm9BlBNFKcMGaJzhvt_ReFO1YKC8Jp5m3TDmOpVGtaodzpKYPERXS2RJhxUsVNQCdTd6v93n4pX_OllsxhIIK_NlJTOiZolRWT4pE1njqksqlrxtVAetqmpluwyrmP09IcL9FoKMYkVJax2SXljcDL8q8Lhg%3D%3D&attredirects=0

Master Weiss, if I didn't know better I'd say you've been plagarised! :lol:

Sorry, Glenn, couldn't resist

Pax,

Chris

 

[Archangel M]

My .02 many people get into the "speed is better than strength" sort of debate because they are fast but not particularly strong. We tend to like to focus on our strengths while making excuses for why we don't work on the things we dont like to work on. The fact of the matter is that you should be striving to improve ALL of your physical attributes.