Power Generation

Gerry Seymour

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Martial arts are the science of Human kenetics, there isnt a seperate set of principals that goven ma, unless your invoking chi ! bowling balls and other inanamate objects have very little if any relivance to human movement,
Every discipline has its own jargon. Sometimes, even when discussing similar principles. You're well aware of this, but prefer to attempt a pedantic retort to someone else's post when you have nothing better to do, even when the post is quite clear in its communication.
 

jobo

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I didn't invoke any - they aren't incantations. I referred to two things (kinetic energy and force), after you commented on an error in units and tried to make it sound like that made the entire post incomprehensible (which, oddly, it seems to be only to you, so far as I can find).
You said they were the same value,so thats your claim, and also indecated that there were other scientific principles that backed that up,

So which principles are you using for this claim, ?
 

jobo

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Every discipline has its own jargon. Sometimes, even when discussing similar principles. You're well aware of this, but prefer to attempt a pedantic retort to someone else's post when you have nothing better to do, even when the post is quite clear in its communication.
So how did what i said disagree with the substance of his post, i tbough i was agreeing ?
 

Flying Crane

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If you compress to the maximum, you can release to the maximum. If you stretch and extend your body to the one extreme, when you go to the other extreme, your hand can travel the maximum distance.

What's your opinion on this type of "power generation"?

Honestly, I cannot tell what he is doing.
 

Gerry Seymour

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You said they were the same value,so thats your claim, and also indecated that there were other scientific principles that backed that up,

So which principles are you using for this claim, ?
Actually, I said they were roughly equivalent. The second sentence, I'll have to ask you to find where I said that.
 

jobo

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Actually, I said they were roughly equivalent. The second sentence, I'll have to ask you to find where I said that.
Riughly the same value then ?? So ??????

Where you said there were other scientific principles in play, presumably you have one in mind to suppirt your claim they were roughly equivalent ?
 

Gerry Seymour

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No thats was tripe, im talkibg abiut the other one abiut poweful punches you pulled me up on
You've meandered more than usual on this one - I'll need you to point me to the post you're actually talking about.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Riughly the same value then ?? So ??????
Yes. So?????

Where you said there were other scientific principles in play, presumably you have one in mind to suppirt your claim they were roughly equivalent ?
Yes, I said there were many principles involved, because you claimed there was one and only one (conservation of momentum) that could be discussed. At no point did I say any of those other principles were necessary for supporting my claim that kinetic energy just prior to impact and force at impact were roughly equivalent - I'd already cleared that one up. You were the one who started bringing up other principles, primarily because you couldn't find anything worth arguing against in my statement.
 

JowGaWolf

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If you compress to the maximum, you can release to the maximum. If you stretch and extend your body to the one extreme, when you go to the other extreme, your hand can travel the maximum distance.

What's your opinion on this type of "power generation"?

Depends on what you are doing. Not every technique should be extended to the extreme. Not every technique requires a maximum distance to travel. I think it's the wrong focus in terms of fighting.

If you are fighting thenL
  • Is your goal to travel maximum distance?
  • Is your goal to have the force of impact on the knuckles, palm, forearm..?
  • Is your goal to hit from a distance or to hit from close range?
There's no one size fits all to this. My entire theory of extending as you describe is not to be the most powerful, but to increase the range of motion and flexibility while gaining a better understanding of the mechanics involved. The extending makes it easier to tell what muscle groups are working and the structure that is involved. Throw a jab that doesn't extend and won't feel much. Throw a jab that extends and you'll feel the muscles and structure that in play.
 

Flying Crane

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The mechanics of the rear straight (same as the cross to me, but I've been corrected on it by boxers) as I understand it is such that when the foot leaves the floor, the leg becomes a temporary counter-weight, offsetting forward momentum. It's not a springing forward, but a pressure to the ground. When you lift the leg, no more pressure. Even if it were a "jumping" motion, as soon as the feet leave the ground in a jump, deceleration starts. So, in either case, the leg leaving the ground ends the leg's input to the punch, and begins the deceleration from that. Anything that comes after can't just add to what was there, because the power already generated is in decline.
And, since that foot is no longer on the ground, the puncher could be collapsed back when his fist impacts if the target is massive or is moving toward him. If the foot were still on the ground it could act as a stabilizer at the least, and continue to drive power into the punch at the best.
 

Flying Crane

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Can anybody put up a clip to prove that "inch punch" ever work in the ring?
I’m sorry but a lack of evidence that something has been proven in the ring will never convince me one way or the other about it’s viability. It is an argument that has absolutely zero strength to it.
 

JowGaWolf

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Can anybody put up a clip to prove that "inch punch" ever work in the ring?

lol.. Tyson knows TMA arm break. has nothing to do with 1 inch punch.


ok back to the "inch punch" concept. You have to watch it in slow motion to catch glimpses of it. There's some at 1:33 in the video below. You can see it again at 2:17

The 1 inch punch is a concept not a technique. It is the concept of driving short range power. In other words if your hand is close to someone's face then it's possible to drive a significant punch into it form that short of a distance.
 

JowGaWolf

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This is why I want to set up a punching back with accelerometers.
Why? if a person's lights turn out at a certain point then all you need to do is hit to that level of power with the jab. Everything else beyond that is irrelevant. If you get K.O. with a jab, then you know it was powerful enough. It need not knock your head off your shoulders. It's like trying to find out which car is more powerful. All of that is irrelevant if the car is hitting a person.

Now if you just want to see which has the most power then yes. Those other numbers would matter.
 

jobo

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Yes. So?????


Yes, I said there were many principles involved, because you claimed there was one and only one (conservation of momentum) that could be discussed. At no point did I say any of those other principles were necessary for supporting my claim that kinetic energy just prior to impact and force at impact were roughly equivalent - I'd already cleared that one up. You were the one who started bringing up other principles, primarily because you couldn't find anything worth arguing against in my statement.
Can you refere me to the post " where you cleared that up"

All i remmeber is you claiming it Was so and then not clearing it up at all
 

Gerry Seymour

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Can you refere me to the post " where you cleared that up"

All i remmeber is you claiming it Was so and then not clearing it up at all
Sure, though you've absolutely and totally failed to point to the posts you refer to, I'll actually do that. Why? Because I actually have posts to refer to, and the claims you made about my posts are never going to be upheld by quoting one of my posts, so you won't serve your self-serving argument by posting anything I actually said.

That said, here's what I said (with a bonus quote of the post where I clarified it, since you purposely chose to not pay attention to the first one).

While it's true he's using a technically incorrect unit, the rest of what he says is the same thing you say. So less "tripe" than "principally accurate, but technically incorrect". Force is the result of the kinetic energy being exerted upon the target, in this case, so the two are roughly equivalent.

I already explained how they are roughly equivalent - kinetic energy converts to force when it is dissipated/transferred to a target. Bowling ball with kinetic energy strikes another bowling ball, exerting force (roughly equivalent to the kinetic energy it had) upon the second bowling ball. Second ball (assuming it is not too large, nor anchored) will now have new kinetic energy roughly equivalent to the force it received, minus any opposing factors (friction, elasticity, gravity, etc.).

And, yes, actually, accelleration does have something to do with kinetic energy, when you consider the entire sequence. It is accelerated to a given velocity (at which point it has kinetic energy based upon that velocity, mass, etc.). And force applied over time (which, in this case, is related to the distance available for acceleration) provides the acceleration that produces the velocity that's the variable (in the example) for the kinetic energy.

So, yeah, related.
 

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