Partner Training

[jobo]

I mean specifically with respect to this giant backwards leap thing, it's a dangerous thing to coach people to do. If you wanna stay engaged and avoid incoming attack, moving back doesn't have to be the only option. Otherwise, boxing rings would be narrow hallways.

Well to be accurate that's a sideways jump, but why do you think of it as dangerous, it would be of little use in a boxing match or any tournament match perhaps, where you are short of required to engage with your opponent, but ( some)boxers do spend a lot of time going backwards then sideways then backwards again,

But in less formal circumstances , keeping our of range, and not getting hit can be considered a win and there a fair chance an opponent who want badly to hit you will be come less controlled and over ever extend leaving them open to a counter

I do have a BACKWARDS jump in my arsenal, which is extremely useful for avoid kicks particularly but blows in general,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It’s a drill that begins to get you comfortable with things coming at you, and the feel of an interaction. It’s not a realistic representation of a fight, but I don’t think it is meant to be.

It has value but like anything, it cannot stand alone in training. There needs to be other tools in the toolbox.

That's what I thought it must be. I'd still like to see the strikes coming closer to contact - being within range, unless this is the very beginning part of a progression.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think you may be over stating the mental well being advantAges of that exercise, I'm willing to bet a few mill , in the bank, a Porsche and a super model girl friend would do more for my happiness than slapping someone about for half an hour, I could even pay someone to do the slapping for me

Maybe. Depends who I get to slap about.

 

[jobo]

That's what I thought it must be. I'd still like to see the strikes coming closer to contact - being within range, unless this is the very beginning part of a progression.

Yes but as an attacking drill, it has limitation and that's what people seem to be focusing on, but as a defensive drill, of both blocking and moving out of range it has considerable merit

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes but as an attacking drill, it has limitation and that's what people seem to be focusing on, but as a defensive drill, of both blocking and moving out of range it has considerable merit

Out-of-range attacks lead to bad habits in defense, too. To me, one of the biggest problems for this is not learning to read which attacks to defend against, so you block the feint that had no chance of connecting and get taken by the real punch.

It's a useful exercise, but could be improved pretty easily. I don't think it's an egregious flaw, but a needless one. Again, if it's a starting point in a progression, I have less of an issue with it.

 

[jobo]

jumping has a time and place. Not all jumping is the same, some jumps "glide" and stays in the air longer than others. Others jumps are short but don't cover the same distance as bigger jumps. If you mess up on the jump then you'll pay dearly for it. Do it at the right time (appropriate jump at the appropriate time) and you'll be fine. Mess up any of the 2 factors and you'll be in trouble.

The additional difficulty with jumping is that you don't accelerate while you are in the are. The speed that you pushed off with is the speed that you travel. Like everything else, there's more to jumping than just jumping. Ask any long jumper or high jumper on how to jump. I can only assume the complexity would also exist in Martial Arts as well, especially in the context of someone attacking you while you are trying to create distance.

Just my 2 cents

Yes and no, if it's a Fla r out running jump then you will start to decelerate the moment you leave the ground, a staNding or walking jump on the other hand , obviously has is acceleration from your previous state of not moving much or at all

 

[jobo]

Out-of-range attacks lead to bad habits in defense, too. To me, one of the biggest problems for this is not learning to read which attacks to defend against, so you block the feint that had no chance of connecting and get taken by the real punch.

It's a useful exercise, but could be improved pretty easily. I don't think it's an egregious flaw, but a needless one. Again, if it's a starting point in a progression, I have less of an issue with it.

No out of range defences are the ultimate in self defence, there is only a problem if you stop being out of range, which is why you need to practise maintaining range, it doesn't matter if it's a fEint or a hook, your OUT OF RANGE

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes and no, if it's a Fla r out running jump then you will start to decelerate the moment you leave the ground, a stawalkin or walking jump on the other hand , obviously has is acceleration from your previous state of not moving much or at all

Would there be any significant lateral deceleration?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No out of range defences are the ultimate in self defence, there is only a problem if you stop being out of range, which is why you need to practise maintaining range

If you (the defender) are creating the out-of-range attack from what was an in-range attack, that's true. I didn't see that in those videos. The "attacker" was rarely within range, so there wasn't much need to defend, really. That's the issue. If you're out of range AND blocking, you're wasting effort on the block - use that hand to do something more useful.

 

[jobo]

If you (the defender) are creating the out-of-range attack from what was an in-range attack, that's true. I didn't see that in those videos. The "attacker" was rarely within range, so there wasn't much need to defend, really. That's the issue. If you're out of range AND blocking, you're wasting effort on the block - use that hand to do something more useful.

The first vid, the attacker is never in range of a head of body shot , as the defender kept moving way from him,

 

[lansao]

Well to be accurate that's a sideways jump, but why do you think of it as dangerous, it would be of little use in a boxing match or any tournament match perhaps, where you are short of required to engage with your opponent, but ( some)boxers do spend a lot of time going backwards then sideways then backwards again,

But in less formal circumstances , keeping our of range, and not getting hit can be considered a win and there a fair chance an opponent who want badly to hit you will be come less controlled and over ever extend leaving them open to a counter

I do have a BACKWARDS jump in my arsenal, which is extremely useful for avoid kicks particularly but blows in general,

There’s just a really good chance you’re gonna mess up and bang into something behind you. Dangerous unless you’re fighting in wide open spaces and even so there’s a good chance you’ll sprain an ankle. It’s ancient stuff from when people fought with spears and nice to uphold tradition but come on.

 

[jobo]

Would there be any significant lateral deceleration?

I'm not claiming its losses, there's air resitance to consider, among others, just that the other statement their is no acceleration after leaving the ground is wrong,

You will off course stop accelerating and lose velocity,about the top of your arc of movment, but you shouldn't deceleratestop as an average of the jump as the potential energu you in gained in Achievibg height, is noW released as you decend, Or , you will tHen accelerate again as gravity takes over,or there is always energy remaining when you land or if you were a ball you'd bounce

 

[jobo]

There’s just a really good chance you’re gonna mess up and bang into something behind you. Dangerous unless you’re fighting in wide open spaces and even so there’s a good chance you’ll sprain an ankle. It’s ancient stuff from when people fought with spears and nice to uphold tradition but come on.

That's not a logical arguments, it's skill against skill, there's a good chance you mess up what ever you do, near 50% of fights are lost

The world is very big, streets are very long, having a good idea what's behind you is a requirement, Possibly not the greatest idea if your fighting in a toilet cubical

 

[lansao]

That's not a logical arguments, it's skill against skill, there's a good chance you mess up what ever you do, near 50% of fights are lost

The world is very big, streets are very long, having a good idea what's behind you is a requirement, Possibly not the greatest idea if your fighting in a toilet cubical

I don’t know man, you do you. But, leaping like that definitely increases likelihood of injury.

 

[lansao]

I don’t know man, you do you. But, leaping like that definitely increases likelihood of injury.

To be fair, one of our forms has a leap in it. But it’s just in keeping with traditional sword vs pole training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The first vid, the attacker is never in range of a head of body shot , as the defender kept moving way from him,

Yeah, but he doesn't look to me like he was ever in range to attempt to hit him, either. All the blocks in that video are unnecessary.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not claiming its losses, there's air resitance to consider, among others, just that the other statement their is no acceleration after leaving the ground is wrong,

You will off course stop accelerating and lose velocity,about the top of your arc of movment, but you shouldn't deceleratestop as an average of the jump as the potential energu you in gained in Achievibg height, is noW released as you decend, Or , you will tHen accelerate again as gravity takes over,or there is always energy remaining when you land or if you were a ball you'd bounce

You won't start decelerating immediately on the lateral vector (other than the insignificant loss to resistance, as you point out), but you will stop accelerating as soon as the foot leaves the ground. There's no energy being added, so no acceleration.

 

[JowGaWolf]

No matter how fast that your opponent may attack, a fast backward jump can always help you to recover the distance.

Starting to think that this jump would be more appropriate with staff or spear fighting. When I think of those 2 weapons it makes more sense to jump like that if someone is striking at the feet. The extra distance is to get out of range of a follow up strike with the staff or the spear. Since it's a jump it can be trained with or without a weapon.

 

[lansao]

Starting to think that this jump would be more appropriate with staff or spear fighting. When I think of those 2 weapons it makes more sense to jump like that if someone is striking at the feet. The extra distance is to get out of range of a follow up strike with the staff or the spear. Since it's a jump it can be trained with or without a weapon.

That makes more sense to me than for kicks or hand to hand. Now go pick a spear fight lol.

 

[now disabled]

I mean specifically with respect to this giant backwards leap thing, it's a dangerous thing to coach people to do. If you wanna stay engaged and avoid incoming attack, moving back doesn't have to be the only option. Otherwise, boxing rings would be narrow hallways.

Is that vid an extract from a kata ? if so then what is the defense he is mounting and against what attack? Would that not put it into context.

I agree moving backwards is not the only option by far back again I feel that the leap in the vid would maybe make more sense if it were actually in context