Opinions on Lenny Sly's Aikido Combative concepts?

[JP3]

Lenny Sly is apparently a longtime aikido person, getting intot he youtube arena with a group near to Chicago, I think it is. He's got a lot of videos online talking about coming out of traditional aikido feel & practice and returning to a more personal combat art format (I'd call his stuff aikijutsu, certainly, myself). I've some opinions from both a good/bad perspective on theories, but not on his practical applications which I think are pretty spot-on. I'd like to ask you what your collective opinions are.

Here is one video link which will get you over to YouTube to one of his videos, about aikido defense in real 2-punch attack-defense situation.

Let me know what you think!

Thx,
J

 

[JP3]

Shoot, I don't think I got the link in there. Hrm...

Well, on youtube.com you can do a search for Lenny Sly Combative Concepts and his channel will come up and you can just pick a video from the growing list to check out. Apologies for my lack of web-ability.

 

[drop bear]

The other guy is still throwing himself.

 

[ShawnP]

put your cursor on the "youtube" logo at the bottom right and right click and choose "Open Link in New Tab" OR "Open Link in New Window" and this will take you to the youtube channel.

 

[ShawnP]

i liked this a lot, this is actually what i want to train in some day, if my health gets better. Thanks for posting.

i dont really agree with the attitude nor the language he uses i like the realism of what is being done in the class.

 

[punisher73]

I've watched a couple of the videos, he is from the Tenshin school (dojo that Seagal taught at). It isn't really a "style" of aikido as it is an approach. He makes it sound as if it is a seperate style of aikido.

As to the "throwing themselves" comment. That is always the hard part of aikido. If the person does the technique correctly, you throw yourself to avoid getting hurt. Also, many times, you "throw yourself" when the technique is applied to learn how to breakfall properly etc. The danger lies in the training when people throw themselves for no reason when the technique is not properly applied.

 

[slink]

I've watched a couple of the videos, he is from the Tenshin school (dojo that Seagal taught at). It isn't really a "style" of aikido as it is an approach. He makes it sound as if it is a seperate style of aikido.

As to the "throwing themselves" comment. That is always the hard part of aikido. If the person does the technique correctly, you throw yourself to avoid getting hurt. Also, many times, you "throw yourself" when the technique is applied to learn how to breakfall properly etc. The danger lies in the training when people throw themselves for no reason when the technique is not properly applied.

When you contrast what gets taught in a lot of Aikido schools against what the Tenshin folks are doing I think that a case can be made that they are in fact different styles.

 

[hoshin1600]

As far as aikido goes I like the way he does technique.
As far as the attitude I can't stand it. Drives me up the wall.
I also don't like the fact that he slams my old teacher who passed away long ago,albeit without directly naming him and the organization.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Let me know what you think!

To compare the following 3 methods, IMO, 3 > 2 > 1.

1. Your opponent's legs are free.
2. You use your leg to block/trap his leg/legs.
3. You use your leg to kick/hook/sweep/scoop/... his leg/legs off the ground.

If you let your opponent to have 2 free legs to move around, he will have better chance to escape your attack and counter you. The more "leg skill" that you can add into your attack, the better result that your attack will have.

 

[JowGaWolf]

lol.. He must have been talking to Hanzou from here. Highly aggressive and fed up with someone who commented about his videos lol. That pure TMA frustration that he's showing ha ha ha.

 

[punisher73]

When you contrast what gets taught in a lot of Aikido schools against what the Tenshin folks are doing I think that a case can be made that they are in fact different styles.

It is Aikikai Aikido. Just because you train in a more aggressive manner than other schools doesn't make it a different style. Now, if based on their training method they change how the techniques are done or change the system's approach like some other styles of Aikido, then "yes" call it by a different name.

 

[adadses ginsberg]

Sly is a knuckle head who studied a martial art like Aikido, didn't get the 'yin and yang' or the 'aiki' element, and now wants it to be like krav maga. Where are the pivots around the point of contact? Just shouting a lot just makes you look like a loudmouth embarrassment.

 

[GPaul]

To be called Aikido, there has to be aiki and I don't see evidence of aiki. It's all force meeting force.There is no presentation of yin in the videos. In one video, I winced as he performed Ikkyo. I winced because the ikkyo was so inexpert, unnecessary force was placed on the elbow joint, endangering uke. O'Sensei admonished us to be careful not to injure uke.

There is some validity regarding the quality of Aikido being taught. In large part, there are too many shodan teaching Aikido. The literal translation of shodan is beginner. And too many beginners call themselves Sensei. An example is in my backyard. A Tenshin dojo recently opened nearby and the teacher is shodan. Shodan! He'd had rank only a year or so before opening his dojo. What qualified Sensei allows a shodan to teach unsupervised?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To be called Aikido, there has to be aiki and I don't see evidence of aiki. It's all force meeting force.There is no presentation of yin in the videos. In one video, I winced as he performed Ikkyo. I winced because the ikkyo was so inexpert, unnecessary force was placed on the elbow joint, endangering uke. O'Sensei admonished us to be careful not to injure uke.

There is some validity regarding the quality of Aikido being taught. In large part, there are too many shodan teaching Aikido. The literal translation of shodan is beginner. And too many beginners call themselves Sensei. An example is in my backyard. A Tenshin dojo recently opened nearby and the teacher is shodan. Shodan! He'd had rank only a year or so before opening his dojo. What qualified Sensei allows a shodan to teach unsupervised?

That depends which definition of "aiki" you are using. It certainly doesn't meet the definition used by Ueshiba late in his life. There is a lot of NOT meeting force with force in this guy's videos, which should be obvious.

For my part (missed this when it was originally posted, so I'll pitch in now @JP3 ), I like the execution of the techniques better than the softer execution I see in a lot of Aikido schools. They still seem to not be using (unless it's in videos I missed) much in the way of basic strikes and some of the body throws (where you don't need arms, like a basic hip throw). And, although he goes on in some detail about how their yokomenuchi is different, they're still not using punches from uke for most (any?) of their attacks, which just drives me nuts.

Oh, and his demonstration uke(s) have fantastic breakfalls.

 

[GPaul]

That depends which definition of "aiki" you are using. It certainly doesn't meet the definition used by Ueshiba late in his life. There is a lot of NOT meeting force with force in this guy's videos, which should be obvious.

For my part (missed this when it was originally posted, so I'll pitch in now @JP3 ), I like the execution of the techniques better than the softer execution I see in a lot of Aikido schools. They still seem to not be using (unless it's in videos I missed) much in the way of basic strikes and some of the body throws (where you don't need arms, like a basic hip throw). And, although he goes on in some detail about how their yokomenuchi is different, they're still not using punches from uke for most (any?) of their attacks, which just drives me nuts.

Oh, and his demonstration uke(s) have fantastic breakfalls.

I've experienced a number of schools of Aikido, including some independent. What I see in the tapes doesn't jell with these schools. To be clear, I've had teachers who can hold their own in a scrap as well as those who can't. Anyway, what he is advocating doesn't correspond with anything I've experienced with many teachers, including those who were students of O'Sensei.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've experienced a number of schools of Aikido, including some independent. What I see in the tapes doesn't jell with these schools. To be clear, I've had teachers who can hold their own in a scrap as well as those who can't. Anyway, what he is advocating doesn't correspond with anything I've experienced with many teachers, including those who were students of O'Sensei.

As I said, it depends which definition of "aiki" you use. I've yet to find two instructors who agree completely on that term. By one of the definitions I've heard from Kondo Sensei of Daito-ryu, there's a fair amount of aiki going on there. By at least one of the definitions I use, there is. By the other, only part of the time.

That what he does doesn't look much like what is seen in Aikikai, I'll agree with. And JP's original thought of referring to it as "Aikijutsu" instead fits the mindset of most in Ueshiba's art. In other Aikido arts, the definition can be quite different.

 

[GPaul]

As I said, it depends which definition of "aiki" you use. I've yet to find two instructors who agree completely on that term. By one of the definitions I've heard from Kondo Sensei of Daito-ryu, there's a fair amount of aiki going on there. By at least one of the definitions I use, there is. By the other, only part of the time.

That what he does doesn't look much like what is seen in Aikikai, I'll agree with. And JP's original thought of referring to it as "Aikijutsu" instead fits the mindset of most in Ueshiba's art. In other Aikido arts, the definition can be quite different.

O'Sensei called his Aikido The Art of Peace. He taught that Aikido is meant to neutralize an attacker and not harm him or her; at least cause as little harm as possible. Further, O'Sensei taught us to always practice with a smile on our face. Is his practice intended to harm the attacker or neutralize the attacker? It's easier to hurt an attacker than to neutralize while not causing harm. Does he smile during practice?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

O'Sensei called his Aikido The Art of Peace. He taught that Aikido is meant to neutralize an attacker and not harm him or her; at least cause as little harm as possible. Further, O'Sensei taught us to always practice with a smile on our face. Is his practice intended to harm the attacker or neutralize the attacker? It's easier to hurt an attacker than to neutralize while not causing harm. Does he smile during practice?

That was his later interpretation of aiki. In his early teachings, there are stories of students being injured and the power applied in the techniques. This is why early students tend to have produced different offshoots than later ones.

 

[Martial D]

Lenny Sly is apparently a longtime aikido person, getting intot he youtube arena with a group near to Chicago, I think it is. He's got a lot of videos online talking about coming out of traditional aikido feel & practice and returning to a more personal combat art format (I'd call his stuff aikijutsu, certainly, myself). I've some opinions from both a good/bad perspective on theories, but not on his practical applications which I think are pretty spot-on. I'd like to ask you what your collective opinions are.

Here is one video link which will get you over to YouTube to one of his videos, about aikido defense in real 2-punch attack-defense situation.

Let me know what you think!

Thx,
J

I tend to judge these sorts of videos more on the way the attacker attacks than what the response is. If anyone attacked me the way that guy is attacking he might beat me, but only because I can't stop laughing.

Other than that I can't really say.

 

[hoshin1600]

O'Sensei called his Aikido The Art of Peace. He taught that Aikido is meant to neutralize an attacker and not harm him or her; at least cause as little harm as possible. Further, O'Sensei taught us to always practice with a smile on our face. Is his practice intended to harm the attacker or neutralize the attacker? It's easier to hurt an attacker than to neutralize while not causing harm. Does he smile during practice?

I understand your point however if we put names aside ( aikido ,aikijiutsu) this guy has purposely stepped outside of the tradition, thus we cannot judge what he does by the traditional standard. That would be judging an apple on how much it looks and tastes like a banana. His videos show he has a distaste for most Ueshiba aikido and has adopted a more aggressive method. Traditionalists may think this then is not aiki and not aikido but that was not the original question from the OP as I understood it. So to judge this guy's practice we need to account for the modified intent.