Opinions on Lenny Sly's Aikido Combative concepts?

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by JP3, May 22, 2016.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,439
    Likes Received:
    4,680
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I've been curious about this, because NGA's entry tends to be a more direct line than Ueshiba's Aikido, on average. We move off-line in some cases, but often move specifically to intersect, to the point that some of us teach making contact at the hip or shoulder to break structure.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,439
    Likes Received:
    4,680
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Agreed. I've frequently seen movement like that I described when I'm demonstrating the soft push block and evasion, from boxers and MMA fighters. I seem to recall seeing similar from Muay Thai fighters, and certainly have seen it in kickboxing and similar sports. The movement that seems more common in Aikido (but certainly not unique, IMO) is the way they enter off-line (which I don't tend to do as much, at least not that way). I'm not sure how to describe what seems different about it, but I have seen some of the more slippery boxers do similar things, so it does happen outside Aikido.
     
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,703
    Likes Received:
    3,536
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Like learning knife defence without ever learning how to handle a knife.
     
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,439
    Likes Received:
    4,680
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    No, not in any way I can figure.
     
  5. Chris Li

    Chris Li Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Well...he didn't, really, "The Art of Peace" is a rather liberal interpretation of the word "Aikido" that was made by John Stevens and misrepresented as a translation of the word.

    Neutralizing without harm to the attacker come from Sokaku Takeda and Daito-ryu, it wasn't originated by Morihei Ueshiba. I don't know about not smiling being a deal breaker, but many of his direct students recounted how hard it was to face the ferocious intensity of Morihei Ueshiba's countenance - and he certainly wasn't smiling all that time.

    Best,

    Chris
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,312
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    This remind me the following:

    - Help someone to go to heaven.
    - Help someone to end his misery life.
    - I only train for self-defense. I don't train to fight.
    - ...

    There is no peace in fighting. To make your opponent's head to meet the ground is not much civilized than to let his face to meet your fist.
     
  7. Ryback

    Ryback Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Well the thread is a bit old by now but I joined the forum very recently and I have a lot of catching up to do...
    Lenny is a student of Haruo Matsuoka Sensei and Larry Reynosa Sensei, both of whom were direct students of Steven Seagal Sensei. Contrary to what some of his students claim in order to advertise themselves as something different, Seagal never said that he has his own style, his Tenshin dojo and the ones affiliated with it are Aikikai dojos. He has his trademark approach and "style" but this doesn't constitute a different kind of ryu...
    Lenny is always talking (usually shouting and cursing) about how his Aikido is "Tenshin Aikido" which is different, faster, better, more practical in a fighting situation kind of Aikido but the truth is that this is just a publicity trick, one that has worked well in his favor too...
    Whether he likes it or not Tenshin dojo is a traditional Aikido Dojo so there is no difference between his days in traditional Aikido and his so called Tenshin training.
    The only difference is that Seagal's approach is indeed more focused on the practical application but he is not the only teacher doing that nor is Lenny the only person on the planet or in Aikido that knows how to use it effectively in a fight.
    He is sometimes right about common mistakes done in Aikido schools that diminish the effectiveness of the art but his way is not the only correct one, nor is he the only one approaching Aikido in such a manner.
    Sometimes he is claiming that a specific technique is unique only in the "Tenshin style" or that no one does hand deflections the way he does, which is utterly wrong, after all he is not familiar with every Aikido Dojo in the world is he?
    Many times he has tried to demonstrate the wrong way that doesn't work as opposed to his own that works... Sometimes he is right, but most times he is watering down the one that is supposed not to be effective, he is showing it making deliberate mistakes in order to prove it wrong and then goes on to demonstrate his own approach.
    His Aikido is far from being unique, his whole movement his te sabaki, ashi sabaki, the use of kiri age,suri age and Uke nagaeshi deflections are all Seagal Sensei movements passed on to him by Matsuoka Sensei and Reynosa Sensei. His whole style is obviously Seagal based BUT he lacks Seagal's flow, he is using too much force and he is stiff during his randori probably because he is inflated like a body builder and it's too hard for him to move in a relaxed flowing way...
    Now, with that being said, I generally like him, believe it or not, he is fun to watch and I respect him as much as I respect any Aikido person...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    88

    He is good to watch and I do enjoy his vids lol but like you I do have issues with how he always says how it doesn't work then goes into how it does and honestly all he his doing is actually applying the technique properly (ok he may add a few extras lol).

    He doesn't have the flow that is for sure but I think that more to do with his in your face style and attitude and yes he is a big dude lol.

    I actually do get a chuckle at how he does say it don't work and all that is not right with Aikido yet he still wears the Hakama etc.

    There is no doubt he can apply his techs that is for sure. I think his style is more into his marketing strategy than anything.

    If imo you want to see a shihan flow then look at Tissier shihan as he does flow and if you ever get the chance to attend a seminar he will even say that some of the techs he learned way back he can no longer do them that way ie the big circles as he is to old etc then he will go on to show how he can still do them and flow but it a slightly different way
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    2,644
    Likes Received:
    1,189
    Trophy Points:
    253
    I prefer to watch Lenny with the sound off. the sound of fingernails running over a chalk board is much more pleasant to me.
    if the volume is audible i get distracted from the voice i hear saying "just shut up! just shut up and do the technique...Just shut up!" then i realize its me yelling it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. O'Malley

    O'Malley Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    28
    According to my teacher (who trained both Daito-ryu and Iwama Aikido), OSensei was obsessed with the concept of ai-uchi (where both opponents kill each other) and thus modified Daito-ryu techniques in order to put the aikidoka in a safer position (the ideal is "I can hit him but he cannot hit me", the second best is "I can't hit him but I'm safe and in an advantageous position"). This is reflected in our stance (sankaku = bladed, triangular stance VS the squarer shikaku stance from Daito-ryu) and in our weapon work.

    In fact, my teacher also practices iaï/battô-do and fights in Atarashii Naginata and he told us that ha felt that his aikido put him in safer positions and made him much less likely to get hit but that it sometimes made him miss his target by a small distance.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,439
    Likes Received:
    4,680
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    That makes sense. I can see how that focus would produce a different approach - and commonly different positions - than a different branch from Daito-ryu. Thanks!
     
  12. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    88

    The stance I agree with as it puts different pressure on the pelvic area thus making movement "easier" and the weight distribution is slightly different

    Using the Bokken and the Jo does help a great deal not only with hand movement (many of the throws the hand /arm movement resembles how you would cut with the sword ) but most def with your foot movement ashi sabaki. As folks will know the first to bokken Kumitachi are almost identical to those of Kishima Shinto Ryu

    I do find it surprising that he said (maybe I got this wrong) that it sometimes made him miss by a small distance, That actually really interests me as I would have thought that it would have had the opposite effect.

    very interesting and a good post
     
  13. Finlay

    Finlay Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Jakarta
    Just because you swear alot doesnt make you style more legit.

    I know awesome fighters and doormen who are still polite

    Take away that and what have you got, just a slightly harder style of aikido.


    There is another video where they attack other styles of aikido and call them weak in the application of ikkyo.

    Trouble is, they way they present 'how most schools do it' i have never seen. Seems largely a straw man argument
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Finlay

    Finlay Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Jakarta
    My mistake... it was sankyo

     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
sly tenshin aikido wo cho
,
combative concepts lenny sly
,

lenny sly

,
lenny sly aikido
,
lenny sly aikido background
,
lenny sly aikido history
,
lenny sly aikido rank
,
lenny sly aikido steven seagal
,
lenny sly background
,
lenny sly bio
,
lenny sly hardo
,
lenny sly steven seagal
,
sly combative concepts
,
wiki lenny sly