Shogun
Master Black Belt
There is a school kinda near me that teaches Shorinji. They are non profit only, even their Shodan students arent allowed to charge. I was wondering if all Shorinji schools or orgs are like this. Thanks all.
Non-profit Shorinji Kenpo
- Thread starter Shogun
- Start date
T
TIGER DRAGON FIGHT
Guest
any org or school of any style can come out with a non-profit org if they go about getting the papers done. so if i were you i'd go inside and ask a few more questions about the program and classes.
There was a Shorinji Kempo forum on this board for a while, which was folded into JMA-General. You might turn up some info. on a search of that area. Shorinji Kempo has a definite religious/philosophical flavor! I'm not sure if you mean a Shorinji Kenpo that is truly different or if it's just an alternate spelling--I don't know very much about the system, I'm afraid.
M
Mark Weiser
Guest
The Problem with running a Martial Arts School as a non profit is you have to read the Articles of Incorporation and the Corporate By Laws to understand the Corporations intent and purpose. Additionally how are they paying for utilities and Rent someone has to be infusing money into the school even if it is by Federal grants or "Chartiable Contributions"
I for one would be disturbed if I was told I could not assess a small fee even to cover gas for traveling to the studio lol.
I would ask for a copy of the Bylaws because according to IRS Rules and Regulations they have to be available for public veiwing and additionally you may also request formally in writing a copy of Fiscal Records which also are required to made available for a reasonable fee and amount of time lets say 48 hours.
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
I for one would be disturbed if I was told I could not assess a small fee even to cover gas for traveling to the studio lol.
I would ask for a copy of the Bylaws because according to IRS Rules and Regulations they have to be available for public veiwing and additionally you may also request formally in writing a copy of Fiscal Records which also are required to made available for a reasonable fee and amount of time lets say 48 hours.
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
They may all be non-profit because Shorinji Kempo is a recognized religion in Japan.
O
OC Kid
Guest
Yea they may not charge fees but ask them if they take donations and how much and how frequent must someone donate. Nuttin is for nuttin
Martial art or religion?
Shorinji Kempo is a registered religion in Japan, and there is an interesting story behind this. After WWII the occupation forces banned the study of traditional Japanese martial arts on the grounds that they promoted militarianism, nationalism, and imperialism. So to get past this rule, So Doshin decided that if there could be dancing religions (one of the many cults to appear in the post-war religious boom in Japan), then he could very well set up a "fighting religion", which he did. It seems likely that the occupations forces turned a blind-eye in this case, as can be seen by the fact that they accepted his flimsy explanation, and the fact that he borrowed the British Forces' (who were in charge of the island of Shikoku where he first started Shorinji Kempo) boxing ring and gloves for training and to give demonstrations. Thus Shorinji Kempo does have official status as a religion in Japan.
More reading:
http://knot.mine.nu/kempo/history.html#maorrel
Shorinji Kempo is a registered religion in Japan, and there is an interesting story behind this. After WWII the occupation forces banned the study of traditional Japanese martial arts on the grounds that they promoted militarianism, nationalism, and imperialism. So to get past this rule, So Doshin decided that if there could be dancing religions (one of the many cults to appear in the post-war religious boom in Japan), then he could very well set up a "fighting religion", which he did. It seems likely that the occupations forces turned a blind-eye in this case, as can be seen by the fact that they accepted his flimsy explanation, and the fact that he borrowed the British Forces' (who were in charge of the island of Shikoku where he first started Shorinji Kempo) boxing ring and gloves for training and to give demonstrations. Thus Shorinji Kempo does have official status as a religion in Japan.
More reading:
http://knot.mine.nu/kempo/history.html#maorrel
K
Kevin Walker
Guest
Hi,John Bishop said:
The scuttlebutt/gossip about Shorinji Kempo is equally interesting. I have been fascinated by Shorinji Kempo since I first read about it in the 1968 edition of BLACKBELT MAGAZINE.
YET - just last year I spoke with an elderly Chinese gentlemen (a Sifu from Beijing) in Boston's Chinatown (Tang People Street) about Doshin So and Shorinji Kempo and he had nothing polite to say.
He vehemently denied that Shorinji Kempo, 'Shaolin Fist' had anything at all to do with the Shaolin Temple. That the founder, Doshin So, was an active member of the Tempen Kai, the Japanese Secret Police, and he called it the 'Gestapo' and claimed Doshin So was involved in all sorts of atrocities against the Chinese people as a senior agent of the Kempen Tai.
The religion, Kongo Zen, which is practiced within Shorinji Kempo, is a thinly disguised attempt at ultra-nationalist indoctrination with Kongo Zen's emphasis on 'half for your self and half for others', the former Kempen Tai officer had allegedly set up Shorinji Kempo as a training camp for pro-Japan zealots. Doshin So has been said to say that the martial arts training of Shorinji Kempo was just bait to lure students for more important things.
Shorinji Kempo is supposed to have been based on Northern Chinese Shaolin Giwamon Fist, then Byakuren (White Lotus) Fist, and the grappling techniques of Chinese Pashi, but on observation it just seems to be a clear practice of linear karate-do and jujitsu techniques.
The Chinese sifu I spoke with wondered why Doshin So was never tried as a war criminal and was upset about the existance of Shorinji Kempo. This opinion of a very good kung fu sifu bothered me since I've always thought Shorinji Kempo was the Japanese version of the Shaolin Temple, and it is not. So there is an interesting story behind Shorinji Kempo after all.
Yes, Shorinji Kempo has a very contraversial past. Doshin So who by the way was born "Michiomi Nakano" did have a WWII past as a Japanese operative in Manchuria. There appears to be very little written about what his duties were during the war.
As to his claim to teach a Shaolin based system, So was unable to prove any Chinese roots when sued in the Japanese courts by Chinese martial scholars in 1972. As a result of this law suit, So agreed to name his system "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" meaning "Japanese Shaolin Fist-Way".
Many martial arts historians believe that So's "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" is nothing more than Aikijujitsu, a system that So did study and receive black belt ranking in.
Funny thing, in 1947 Doshin So claimed to have been the 21st generation grandmaster of Shorinji Kempo. This was about the same time that James Mitose was claiming to be the 21st generation grandmaster of "kenpo jiujutsu" or what he described to Thomas Young as "Shorinji Kenpo".
As to his claim to teach a Shaolin based system, So was unable to prove any Chinese roots when sued in the Japanese courts by Chinese martial scholars in 1972. As a result of this law suit, So agreed to name his system "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" meaning "Japanese Shaolin Fist-Way".
Many martial arts historians believe that So's "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" is nothing more than Aikijujitsu, a system that So did study and receive black belt ranking in.
Funny thing, in 1947 Doshin So claimed to have been the 21st generation grandmaster of Shorinji Kempo. This was about the same time that James Mitose was claiming to be the 21st generation grandmaster of "kenpo jiujutsu" or what he described to Thomas Young as "Shorinji Kenpo".
OP
Shogun
Master Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #13
So, Doshin So could have been lying, or probably was lying, like a lot of Kenpo/Kempo Ryuha. Something I'd like to add however, is that the man you (kevin Walker) talked to about kenpo could've inflated the story a little bit because he was a "cop". I work for the Sheriff's office, and I here the stories of people that here "cop" and turn a story a little bit to make the police like villians.
Are you saying that Doshin So was a "cop"? Having been one for the last 32 years, I've never heard of military intelligence operatives being referred to as "cops". The atrocities that the Japanese commited in Manchuria during WWII are well documented. And many of the Japanese who commited these atrocities were never found and punished. Time and death has erased much of this information, but it seems suspicious that someone who was a Japanese intelligence officer would return to Japan after the war, take a Korean name, and found a religious sect.Shogun said:
K
Kevin Walker
Guest
Hi,Shogun said:
Yes, thank you, I did take into consideration that the elderly Chinese national whom I spoke with in Boston's Chinatown (a mile from where I was born and raised) was a little aggitated and therefore being less than objective. He might have exaggerated some of his claims.
The trouble is, there is always a grain of truth in rumors, which makes a rumor a springboard for further research and verification.
Also, a military intelligence officer is seldom, if ever, referred to as a 'cop'. Cops are civilians, military are not.
In WWII, the Kempen Tai, the Japanese secret police, were very successful in infiltrating Chinese secret societies. Almost all of the Kempen Tai were members of the Japanese Black Dragon Society, a hard-core bunch of nationalist militants. And the Kempen Tai were adept at extracting information from suspects, and I don't mean they put women's panties on top of a suspect's head to get it. Doshin So was an active member of this group!
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Kaiso So was waht might be more accurately defined as an "operative". He had spent enough time in China to be able to pass as Chinese (speaking the local dialects without Japanese accent), and was responsible for getting the gossip from behind the scenes, and relating the information to decision makers.
In his own writings and interviews, Sho recounted being disturbed by what he had seen -- and been responsible for -- in China, and believed there had to be a way to achieve internal peace through external training. Was he an ultra-nationalist? While servine in China, absolutely. Did he remain one? The consensus among NSK practitioners is a resounding NO. Rather, the story seems to go (and this is from conversations I've had with a couple of his direct students) that he had something of a conversion experience. Kongo Zen (also occasionally spelled konko zen) is practiced in japanese temples by people with nothing to do with Shorinji kempo training. It's a path that reiterates some of the simple "be nice to each other" lessons present in pretty much any major religion.
Are they exclusive to Japanese? Here in Los Angeles there is a NSK sensei (who looks a lot like the bearded wierdness of Kaiso) who accepted whole-heartedly an old friend of mine who is black as coal. I straggeled in on occasion, and was also welcomed (as long as I put my nose to the grindstone like evrrybody else...they don't like slackers). Now, if you understand the ultra-nationalist Japanese mentality, you also have to understand that it is innately deeply racist...Japanese are gods only true race, and all others are simply barbarians who lack the couth, development, and refined sophistication possesed by Japanese (their ideology, not mine). If So's ultra-nationalist leanings were infused into NSK, neither Sean or myself would have ever been allowed to set foot into that training hall. I merely tinkered; sean pursued it to middle-upper -dan ranks. With the Japanese disciples of Kaiso.
Stylistically? Always seemed to me like a mesh of boxing, some kicks from karate, and some nasty, mechanically-based interpretations of aiki joint manipulations. I've trained in several Japanese joint manip styles, and the sheer pain AND bodily control discovered in the Shorinji material is distinctly unlike any other aiki arts I've seen. Similar, but with just enough of a twist to make it different, and really, really unpleasant (you eventually learn to stretch your wrists into extremes of flexion, extension, and side deviations b/c the locks feel like you're going to explode if you do not have the requisite flexibility).
D.
In his own writings and interviews, Sho recounted being disturbed by what he had seen -- and been responsible for -- in China, and believed there had to be a way to achieve internal peace through external training. Was he an ultra-nationalist? While servine in China, absolutely. Did he remain one? The consensus among NSK practitioners is a resounding NO. Rather, the story seems to go (and this is from conversations I've had with a couple of his direct students) that he had something of a conversion experience. Kongo Zen (also occasionally spelled konko zen) is practiced in japanese temples by people with nothing to do with Shorinji kempo training. It's a path that reiterates some of the simple "be nice to each other" lessons present in pretty much any major religion.
Are they exclusive to Japanese? Here in Los Angeles there is a NSK sensei (who looks a lot like the bearded wierdness of Kaiso) who accepted whole-heartedly an old friend of mine who is black as coal. I straggeled in on occasion, and was also welcomed (as long as I put my nose to the grindstone like evrrybody else...they don't like slackers). Now, if you understand the ultra-nationalist Japanese mentality, you also have to understand that it is innately deeply racist...Japanese are gods only true race, and all others are simply barbarians who lack the couth, development, and refined sophistication possesed by Japanese (their ideology, not mine). If So's ultra-nationalist leanings were infused into NSK, neither Sean or myself would have ever been allowed to set foot into that training hall. I merely tinkered; sean pursued it to middle-upper -dan ranks. With the Japanese disciples of Kaiso.
Stylistically? Always seemed to me like a mesh of boxing, some kicks from karate, and some nasty, mechanically-based interpretations of aiki joint manipulations. I've trained in several Japanese joint manip styles, and the sheer pain AND bodily control discovered in the Shorinji material is distinctly unlike any other aiki arts I've seen. Similar, but with just enough of a twist to make it different, and really, really unpleasant (you eventually learn to stretch your wrists into extremes of flexion, extension, and side deviations b/c the locks feel like you're going to explode if you do not have the requisite flexibility).
D.
Would this "Sean" be Sean Cephas?
Mekugi
Orange Belt
Woa....you've got something there.John Bishop said:
It seems that there were different "kempo" coming out of the woodwork at that time. Tenshin Koryu Kempo sprang up in the same era.
-R
