Non-profit Shorinji Kenpo

[Colin_Linz]

Hi Colin, here were my observations in comparing him to Mitose from reading everyone's posts. Mitose allegedly left Hawaii for Japan as a child (4) to live with his grandparents and be taught the family art which was originally rooted in China from his grandfather. Doshin So left Japan as a child (12) although somewhat older than the young Mitose, to live in China with his uncle and was trained in Shaolin Kung Fu. Both spent 17 years studying the art. Mitose went back to Hawaii and began officially teaching in 1942 and wrote a book describing his system in 1947 entitled: What is Self Defense Kenpo Jiu Jitsu, although Mitose originally called his art 'Shorinji' Kempo. It was the first art to have the pairing off of practitioners to practice and learn individual self defense techniques. Mitose claimed to be the 21st decendant of his Shaolin inspired family art. Doshin So left China, went back to Japan and began teaching an art he called Shrorinji Kenpo of which he stated he was the 21 decendant. So's art also had the 'pairing off' method of practicing self defense techniques. Mitose's art appears to be an eclectic blend of Okinawan kempo karate and some form of an oriental grappling art, possibly Okinawan torite and/or Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Doshin So's art has been described by some on this forum as a blend of linear Japanese karate techniques and jiu jitsu while others felt it was a very effective blending of aikijitsu. Nevertheless, the relationship of an eclectic blending of a grappling art with a punch/strike and kick art are predominate in both systems. There is much talk of Mitose as being a U.S. Naval secret intelligence agent. He has used religion as part of his focus on the martial arts and has been accused of using cult like methods to get his students (Terry Lee case) to do his bidding. Doshin So's organization is based on religion. He has also been accused of being a secret police and military intelligence agent. The above posts also stated he ran a cult like operation using martial arts and religion to get his students to do his bidding. Mitose was investigated for many illegal activites and crimes against the eldery including conspiracy to murder and extortion. It has been said by some that Doshin So should have been charged with war crimes. Mitose preached humanity, love and kindness to one another while having a background of treachery, violence and deceit. Doshin So's life appears to be clouded in the same veil of controversary. Masayoshi Mitose changed his name, Kaiso So also changed his. Both claim a lineage to Bodhidharma and roots to Shaolin Kung Fu. Mitose's lineage and training is still somewhat a mystery. According to documents, Doshin So was taken to court in 1972 by the Chinese and couldn't prove a Shaolin Chinese connection to his martial arts and was legally forced to change it's name to 'Nippon' (Japanese) Shorinji Kenpo. In all seriousness Colin, like I said, these two men appear to have been seperated at birth! Respectfully, Prof. Joe Shuras

OK, I see where you are heading. I was not aware of Mitose and his claims. Yes they are similar in some ways. Would you say that there may have been, shall we say inspiration from one to the other in regards to their claims? If so, who do you think was the inspiration to the other?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Please give details of exactly where Draeger's books--which appear scrupulous about their handling of sources in a fashion that is unfortunately very uncommon in martial arts circles--are inaccurate. Draeger, among other things, went back to what there are of "Bodhidharma's" texts, in which his mediation and physical technique is explained--no martial arts practices to speak of. And far from denigrating Shorinji, Draeger speaks rather highly of its ethics and aspirations to close the same chapter. One might prefer better documentation of sources, however: the books have no bibliography.

Second, please explain how you're also explaining away Henning's similar analysis, based on different sources.

It also seems very clear that, "Doshin So"--very similarly to Morehei Ueshiba--was a member of a very militaristic--indeed fascist--Japanese society.

The histories of martial arts--all of them--are deeply entwined with a great deal of thuggery and criminality. It is of benefit to noone, when we pretend otherwise.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

In support of Mr. Linz & Shorinji Kempo, the juho are a magnitude more complex than the standard JJJ wrist entanglements. There are some similarities, but then again, there are substantial differences. You can get through a jujutsu wrists session, and be alright the next day. Shorinji kempo wrists training is absolutely excruciating. After being through even a little bit, you can almost nap through standard JJJ entanglement.

The goho probably resembles american boxing waaay more than the linear karate schools. And then there's that push-down check they do at the end of every technique...chances are it's a stylistic flare put out there by Kaiso So, but I've not seen any othger Japanese kempo or karate school whip it.

Stirring the pot,

Dave

 

[Colin_Linz]

Please give details of exactly where Draeger's books--which appear scrupulous about their handling of sources in a fashion that is unfortunately very uncommon in martial arts circles--are inaccurate. Draeger, among other things, went back to what there are of "Bodhidharma's" texts, in which his mediation and physical technique is explained--no martial arts practices to speak of. And far from denigrating Shorinji, Draeger speaks rather highly of its ethics and aspirations to close the same chapter. One might prefer better documentation of sources, however: the books have no bibliography.

Second, please explain how you're also explaining away Henning's similar analysis, based on different sources.

It also seems very clear that, "Doshin So"--very similarly to Morehei Ueshiba--was a member of a very militaristic--indeed fascist--Japanese society.

The histories of martial arts--all of them--are deeply entwined with a great deal of thuggery and criminality. It is of benefit to noone, when we pretend otherwise.

As to Draeger, I have never read his works. I have just read and heard from others that they have some inaccuracies. I believe this is with some other arts, not only Shorinji Kempo. From my perspective I would rather judge Shorinji Kempo from my experience with it rather than someone who had little knowledge of it, and their interpretation. I, of course don’t expect others to trust my word either.



As to Henning. Once again I haven’t read his works. If you are referring to him in relation to the Bodhidharma story, I have not dismissed him. I have merely stated that it is a story to which many Chinese Buddhist and Martial artists accept. This is not saying that I believe them, but rather it is what they believe. To be honest I’m inclined towards a bit of a mix of both. Doshin So spent many years in China and was quite fluent in Chinese. He is regarded as being very learned regarding written Chinese. Being a monk in China for so long and his interest in Martial Arts, Buddhism and Human History, it would be reasonable to expect that he had done considerable research himself.



It is very true that martial arts had a rough history in Japan; however this was before budo. Budo was developed to separate its practitioners from the violent actions of past martial artists. As for the character of people like Doshin So or Morehei Ueshiba, I prefer to judge them by there actions and what they taught, I think it gives a truer representation of what type of person they are. They both loved their country, is that so bad. They both taught self defence with the very strong morale code that demanded that compassion should be given to the attacker, is that what it means to a fascist? As I have said before, I can see no hint of fascism or right wing behaviour in Shorinji Kempo, neither the organisation or its teachers, even at the highest level.



So sensei (Doshin So’s son in law) was telling a story at a training session a couple of months ago of how he first met Doshin So. It was when he was very young and had only just started training. He was leaving a place, I can’t remember where, when Doshin So entered. At this time Doshin So needed a cane to walk. Non-the less he stoped, put his cane to rest, and gave the young So sensei a two handed gassho rei. So sensei was impressed by this solum gesture of respect to him, a mere boy. This description doesn’t appear to fit the image of some right wing fascist. Just as his lectures don’t fit, or the ideals and teachings of Kongo Zen don’t fit. By the way we use gassho rei, not bowing because it is a form of respect that demonstrates equality between each other unlike bowing. This too would seem some distance him from being a right wing fascist.



People will write or say things for whatever reason they have, me included. If you want to find out the truth look at the actions, not the words. Actions will eventually tell you the truth.

 

[Colin_Linz]

Robert,

I thought I should give you some reference that may explain my coldness towards Draeger. The link below is to a thread on ebudo. I have seen similar threads related to Japanese budo and Draeger elsewhere.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19785&highlight=draeger

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I interviewed a a guy who might be considered a "senior" in Shorinji. Regarding the right wing fascist thing, he had some interesting offerings. I'll precede that I have/had no way of confirming or disconfirming them, but this was with a Japanese man who trained with So many years ago.

He WAS a right winged fascist during his initial stay in China. Much of what he saw doen by his fellow Japanese righties, to the Chinese people (including the families of friends he had made as an expatriot) caused him to switch sides of the fence. He was an operative for the Japanese government, and provided the Japanese army with some of the information they used to invade the territory, and commit war crimes. Seeing the war crimes, and knowing his intel supplied the perps with the info they needed to commit them, messed with his head. So he opted for change.

Some Chinese hold no animosity towards him (they might even advocate for statues at temples). Some, having looked into his history of service to his country as a mole living in China, do (they might advocate for lawsuits). Kaiso was no angel in his life, but attempted (supposedly) to redeem himself.

Mitose had no such history to redeem, and while his lineage was questionable, was running scams of some sort up to his incarceration. So had a history to redeem, and -- by contrast -- was not affiliated with ner-do-wells to his final days, as was Mitose. Even if the lives of the men, and their lineages, were shady, they ended their decades on the planet doing very different work, surrounded by very different types of men. One without remorse, continuing to claim innocence; one deeply remorseful, hoping to provide Japanese youth with an alternative to nationalist, militaristic pride. Still questionable in his history, but passing from this life in a different context.

That's gotta count for something.

Dave

 

[Colin_Linz]

Dave thanks for the support. I have not heard this explanation before. It is one I would lend credence to because of the number of lectures and TV interviews he did renouncing Japans actions on the Chinese mainland. He was very focused on developing Japan into a nation that would be respected internationally. His favourite saying was “the person, the person, everything depends on the quality of the person”. He believed that race or religion had nothing to do with how leaders treat their people, but rather the quality of the leader. He used the example of Sudia Arabia under its old leader and Dubia. If you like you can make it current and go with Saddam and Iraq and that of Dubia, both countries are lead by people of the same race and religious background; however the way they treat their people, and manage their countries income is worlds apart.

He believed the Japanese had forgotten how to act with warmth to each other, and needed to take some lessons from other countries. He was quite openly critical of their human development. No doubt this created some problems for him, but he was very much a man of his convictions and very much an individual in a society where this was unusual.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Not buying.

The cited thread from e-budo complains about Draeger's interpretation of the relationship between religious beliefs, martial arts and politics in pre-war Japan, and suggests that his argument about (for example) Buddhism and martial arts being directly connected to the rise of Japanese fascism is mere cultural bias on his part.

No facts to counter Draeger's arguments or facts are given; there's a simple denial, which is what one has also seen elsewhere.

Really, it seems blind-as-a-batism to claim that religion and the arts were in no serious way connected to militarism and indeed fascism before the war. For one thing, both "Doshin So," and Morehei Ueshiba went to China during the late 1920s for right-wing purposes--John Stevens' "Abundant Peace," a biography of the founder of aikido written from an extremely-sympathetic perspective, even claims that Ueshiba was in China with a right-wing imperialist group, trying to take the country over, when he experienced the enlightenment fundamental to aikido.

Donn Draeger--one of those American military men who travelled to Asia and fell in love with the arts--spent his life (quite literally; when he tied, they had to pass the hat to get enough money to put up a marker) travelling, studying, writing about the arts he loved. I've seen video of him moving with a sword; I've read about his judo ability. If he's wrong, so be it--but the man deserves a little more than a glib dismissal. He deserves a little proof.

What concerns me are these recurrent attempts to sanitize (for whose protection?) the history of the arts. Which certainly isn't confined to monasteries, even if we whitewash the somewhat-tatty history of the several Shaolins.

Of course this doesn't necessarily take a thing from the arts as they actually are--and if you'd read the Draeger chapter on Shorinji, that's exactly what he says: "Its spiritual and ethical values are admirable, socially acceptable not only to the Japanese but to people of other countries as well." (171-72, already cited)

And by the way, a lot of the stuff written here about Shorinji kenpo is either coming direct from Draeger's books, or from some parent source that both he and these writers are using.

Read the books. he may be wrong, but if there are better written and researched, more-beautiful books on martial arts written from a more-knowledgeable and sympathetic perspective, they're awfully well hidden.

 

[Colin_Linz]

Robert,

I will endeavour to track down a copy and read it. It is wrong of me to make any sort of judgement on it without doing so. I had just heard from a number of Japanese budoka that he seemed biased against the Japanese. So whenever I hear someone quote him I wonder if his alleged bias has effected his outlook.

I have no idea what Kaiso was like early in his life. I know he did intelligence work for the Japanese military, and he may even have been a fascist. I also know that he had a very hard upbringing. Losing his alcoholic father when he was about 8 and his mother when about 12. I do know by his own writings how appalled he was by what went on in Manchuria, and I know the type of organisation he created.

In Australia a few years ago there was a political move to the far right under a political leader that exploited peoples fears of other races. They became very powerful, it seemed they had hit on the feelings of insecurity of many people at the time and thier popularity grew tremendously. This was not because people where all right wing fascists, but because they were scared and insecure. The party also fed on many perceptions of the public. Where for instance, we may be overrun with criminals or unmarried young mothers. These were common perceptions within the community, but there were no supporting facts. Non-the less they provided great recruitment propaganda for the party. Looking back there were many people involved in this party, now it is insignificant. I’m sure most people were decent people that for whatever reason joined because it made sense at the time.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that people live and learn, they make mistake and they change through out life. I don’t know if Kaiso was or was not a fascist right winger, and I’m not prepared to make a judgement on someone when I cannot understand what circumstances prevailed at the time. All I can attest to is that right wing fascism has no place within Shorinji Kempo or Kaiso’s teachings.

 

[Tripitaka of AA]

Hi Colin (Happy New Year btw)

You've been facing a tough crowd here, but handled it with aplomb as always .


Robert (Rousselot) said

While I have friends that like and practice Shorinji Kempo I do not care for Shorinji’s fabricated history, and the demi-God status placed on Do Shin So, nor the over zealous attitude of most of the practitioners I have met in Japan.

Their attitude has basically been “Shorinji is the best; you should quite your art and join us”

and

The main thing that turned me off though was the attitude of most of the Japanese and a few foreigners that practice the art. The Japanese tended to be very right wing and the foreigners tended to be “grasshopper” wannabees.

If any of these comments were referring to Tony Kehoe, then the readers of this and five other Internet forums will know exactly what you mean. Of course, they will also know that he is a rather unusual person and has some extreme views. A thoroughly decent chap and very nice in person, he can be the epitome of "over-zealous" when challenged on his pet topics. . He is probably not regarded by many as the "typical" Kenshi .


Also, Robert, as you have lived in Japan for many years, would you say that Budoka are, in general, old-fashioned and more likely to support Right-Wing politics than other groups of the populace? My Japanese wife has described it that way, but perhaps that was just her environment.

 

[Colin_Linz]

Hi David,

Happy New Year. I haven't seen you hear before, not that I have been here long myself.

 

[RRouuselot]

Hi Colin (Happy New Year btw)

You've been facing a tough crowd here, but handled it with aplomb as always .


Robert (Rousselot) said

and



1) If any of these comments were referring to Tony Kehoe, .


2) Also, Robert, as you have lived in Japan for many years, would you say that Budoka are, in general, old-fashioned and more likely to support Right-Wing politics than other groups of the populace? My Japanese wife has described it that way, but perhaps that was just her environment.

1) Wasn't really talking about Tony.....just some others I have met at the Budo Seminar in Chiba.
2) The old ones sure as hell are "right wingers"....don't know about the younger ones.

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi Colin, as to who inspired who all I can say is this. it was brought up once on the Kajukenbo Cafe that it appears Mitose copied Doshin So. However, a Kosho Shorei ryu student pied in and stated Mitose actually started officially teaching in Hawaii in 1942, claiming the 21st decendant and initially calling his art Shorinji Kempo and by 1974 he wrote a book breaking down the art and now calling it kenpo Jiu Jitsu. Doshin So came on the scene and founded his art in 1974 claiming 21st decendant. The Kosho student felt mitose inspired So. As far as my opinion goes, it's so confusing and conflicting that I can't say one way or the other but the similiarities are a little 'uncanny' to say the least.

By the way Colin, I don't feel at all this reflects on the crediability and usefulness of your art as a great martial arts system at all and I say the same of the Mitose people and Kosho. I'm just commenting on these two men and their enigmic backgrounds...........strange!

 

[The Kai]

again the myth of the lineage of the Martial Arts (regardless of which style) streching back for 100 or even thousands of years is being debunked almost on a daily basis. yet, we still fall for it.

Ancient History, score the records of the 1950's and 60's
Modern History look to the 70' and 80's

Application of Historical principles look at how your art is practiced today.

My High school football team was the called the Spartans, nobody actually thought we were spartans though-we were emulating thier attributes.

Todd

 

[pete]

My High school football team was the called the Spartans, nobody actually thought we were spartans though-we were emulating thier attributes.

couldn't resist....

http://infomedia.jt.org/char.php?i=125

 

[The Kai]

I said the football team! But I guess you guys on the sidelines would wear the same colors?

Todd

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi Colin, as to who inspired who all I can say is this. it was brought up once on the Kajukenbo Cafe that it appears Mitose copied Doshin So. However, a Kosho Shorei ryu student pied in and stated Mitose actually started officially teaching in Hawaii in 1942, claiming the 21st decendant and initially calling his art Shorinji Kempo and by 1974 he wrote a book breaking down the art and now calling it kenpo Jiu Jitsu. Doshin So came on the scene and founded his art in 1974 claiming 21st decendant. The Kosho student felt mitose inspired So. As far as my opinion goes, it's so confusing and conflicting that I can't say one way or the other but the similiarities are a little 'uncanny' to say the least.

By the way Colin, I don't feel at all this reflects on the crediability and usefulness of your art as a great martial arts system at all and I say the same of the Mitose people and Kosho. I'm just commenting on these two men and their enigmic backgrounds...........strange!

Boy, did I screw this post up, a little dislexic I think!, lol. Just replace 1974 for 1947. Thanks, Joe

 

[Colin_Linz]

Hi Colin, as to who inspired who all I can say is this. it was brought up once on the Kajukenbo Cafe that it appears Mitose copied Doshin So. However, a Kosho Shorei ryu student pied in and stated Mitose actually started officially teaching in Hawaii in 1942, claiming the 21st decendant and initially calling his art Shorinji Kempo and by 1974 he wrote a book breaking down the art and now calling it kenpo Jiu Jitsu. Doshin So came on the scene and founded his art in 1974 claiming 21st decendant. The Kosho student felt mitose inspired So. As far as my opinion goes, it's so confusing and conflicting that I can't say one way or the other but the similiarities are a little 'uncanny' to say the least.

By the way Colin, I don't feel at all this reflects on the crediability and usefulness of your art as a great martial arts system at all and I say the same of the Mitose people and Kosho. I'm just commenting on these two men and their enigmic backgrounds...........strange!

I would like to add just a couple of corrections. Shorinji Kempo was officially established in 1947. Doshin So's first book was printed in 1970 it was titled Shorinji Kempo philosophy and technique, ISB 0870401165. His second book was first printed in 1972, it was titled What is Shorinji Kempo ISB 0870401777. There have been other books, but these were the only ones published in English.

 

[Colin_Linz]

again the myth of the lineage of the Martial Arts (regardless of which style) streching back for 100 or even thousands of years is being debunked almost on a daily basis. yet, we still fall for it.

Ancient History, score the records of the 1950's and 60's
Modern History look to the 70' and 80's

Application of Historical principles look at how your art is practiced today.

My High school football team was the called the Spartans, nobody actually thought we were spartans though-we were emulating thier attributes.

Todd

Doshin So has always said that what he taught is not the Shaolin Chaun Fa that he learned, but rather a reengineered version of his life study of budo. The naming is more to do with the philosophical side of the art, and the inspiration behind what he wanted to achieve.

 

[Colin_Linz]

Boy, did I screw this post up, a little dislexic I think!, lol. Just replace 1974 for 1947. Thanks, Joe

Just as a point of interest, Doshin So didn't arrive back to Japan until 1946.