No style

[Gweilo]

I disagree. If someone is trained in boxing that doesn’t limit their options. Rather, it men’s they have a specific area they are more adept at. Working within that area during a defensive situation is playing to strength, not giving up the option to do other things.

Wether we train boxing or Muay thai, we can only move in 8 directions, every thing else is a variation, as long as it is done with good posture, we work balanced and with strength was my point. 2 different principles to achieve efficient motion

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The Sanda class can be a good example of "no style" teaching.

A "no style" teacher may teach his class in the following way:

After students have learned all the basic tools (kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game), the teacher can created 8 (can be 6, 10, or ...) solo/partner drills of each if student wants to learn:

- power generation,
- speed generation,
- footwork,
- switch hands,
- attack through the front door,
- attack through the side doors,
- leading arm jam back arm,
- kick low, punch high,
- attack leading leg first, attack back leg afterward,
- use pull to set up push,
- use push to set up pull,
- use straight line attack to set up circular attack.
- use circular attack to set up straight line attack.
- attack one direction, you then attack the opposite direction.
- attack left, you then attack right,
- ...

In other words, all the principles, strategies, footwork, … can be taught/learned by a finite set of solo/partner drills. If those solo/partner drills are also recorded on video, the students will be easy to learn and remember.

 

[wab25]

So why do we need to do all the work of writing these books and then putting them together. Since Sanda contains all principles, strategies and footwork as well as all techniques... why don't we just quit the foolishness we study now, and study Sanda instead? If we can find a DVD of all the patterns and drills, it will be easy.

In other words, all the principles, strategies, footwork, … can be taught/learned by a finite set of solo/partner drills. If those solo/partner drills are also recorded on video, the students will be easy to learn and remember.

And if we did go through the work, to create the giant book... I guess we would just call it Sanda...

 

[Martial D]

So why do we need to do all the work of writing these books and then putting them together. Since Sanda contains all principles, strategies and footwork as well as all techniques... why don't we just quit the foolishness we study now, and study Sanda instead? If we can find a DVD of all the patterns and drills, it will be easy.


And if we did go through the work, to create the giant book... I guess we would just call it Sanda...

Asked in sarcasm..but that's honestly a good question, in a more general sense. If there are ways of training that produce tangible results, and other ways of training that do not, why be undyingly loyal to the latter?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You may learn programming language

- C++ from C++ class,
- Java from Java class,
- ...

You can also go to a "no style" class that teach you all the programming language.

Not really. You could go to a "general programming" class, but it won't teach you all the languages (unless it's really a string of classes on different programming languages). It will teach you basic logic (loops, conditionals, error trapping, etc.), usually using a couple of languages. Or it will simply teach you parts of languages (in that case, I'd assume - like some MMA gyms - it's parts that work together, like HTML and CSS).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's still just trade off. If we agree with the trade off, the style will have no meaning.

- My style do side kick this way because ...
- Your style do side kick that way because ...

The difference is "because". the difference is not "style".

But you're still talking about styles. Styles mostly are a generalized "because" - they have an overall approach, and (in a broad sense, not in all particulars) choose movement and technique to work with that approach.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you don't mind being limited to only the notes, chord progressions, not to mention a comparitively tiny repertoire of compositions, then nothing.

But when it comes time to jam with the band you will be far more limited as to what you can follow and and the range of sounds you can make than a pianist that is also trained in jazz and rock n roll.

If you are comfortable setting limits and barriers for yourself, that's between you and your piano.

There are folks who choose exactly that in their music. They want to be able to play the songs they like, and that style is what they learn to play.

And there are folks who feel the same way about their MA. They like what they like, and that's sufficient.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't train Judo. But if I can find a throw in Judo that I don't know how to do, I will think my throwing art training is not complete.

I also don't train TKD. But if I can find a kick in TKD that I don't know how to do, I will think my kicking skill training is not complete.

If we can find teachers from all MA styles. Ask them to write a book about their style. We then combine all their books into 1 book, we can name that 1 book as "No Style".

Why are you hell-bent on "no style"? That book (actually, a large set of books) would be a compendium of styles. It would be "all styles".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wether we train boxing or Muay thai, we can only move in 8 directions, every thing else is a variation, as long as it is done with good posture, we work balanced and with strength was my point. 2 different principles to achieve efficient motion

With that, I agree. And I think that is (or ought to be) the point of training. You learn specific approaches - working within limitations, so you avoid specific mistakes and habits while you're learning. Once you reach a certain level, there should be a shift to working in what I call the "grey areas": places where it's not technique from the style's curriculum, but an application of basic principles in whatever way works.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The Sanda class can be a good example of "no style" teaching.

A "no style" teacher may teach his class in the following way:

After students have learned all the basic tools (kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game), the teacher can created 8 (can be 6, 10, or ...) solo/partner drills of each if student wants to learn:

- power generation,
- speed generation,
- footwork,
- switch hands,
- attack through the front door,
- attack through the side doors,
- leading arm jam back arm,
- kick low, punch high,
- attack leading leg first, attack back leg afterward,
- use pull to set up push,
- use push to set up pull,
- use straight line attack to set up circular attack.
- use circular attack to set up straight line attack.
- attack one direction, you then attack the opposite direction.
- attack left, you then attack right,
- ...

In other words, all the principles, strategies, footwork, … can be taught/learned by a finite set of solo/partner drills. If those solo/partner drills are also recorded on video, the students will be easy to learn and remember.

That sounds an awful lot like a style.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why are you hell-bent on "no style"? That book (actually, a large set of books) would be a compendium of styles. It would be "all styles".

All styles = no style.

When we talk about earth people, we no longer care if one is American, Chinese, ...

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Wether we train boxing or Muay thai, we can only move in 8 directions, every thing else is a variation, as long as it is done with good posture, we work balanced and with strength was my point. 2 different principles to achieve efficient motion

Just to be a nudge, i would say 10 directions- up and down as well.

If i really wanted to be technical, i would say 360 (or more- spherical not circular) directions to move.

(None of that has anything to do with your actual point though, which i agree with).

 

[Gweilo]

up and down as well.

No you are correct 10 directions it is. It's a very valid point, especially when people pass the mid forties shall we say, start to develop a fear of, or start to struggle, or find being on the floor uncomfortable, or indeed jumping any higher than an inch or 2.
I consider my wrists slapped

 

[Martial D]

There are folks who choose exactly that in their music. They want to be able to play the songs they like, and that style is what they learn to play.

And there are folks who feel the same way about their MA. They like what they like, and that's sufficient.

Yes. That is true.

And the ones with more limitations and less range are demonstrably worse musicians.

Like I said before, if you are comfortable with self imposed limitations, that's fine, but it's disingenuous to pretend that's not what they are.

 

[Gweilo]

Like I said before, if you are comfortable with self imposed limitations, that's fine, but it's disingenuous to pretend that's not what they are.

I could not agree more, many people, work under a self imposed false cealing by the restrictions they place upon themselves through fear or self doubt. Most will train with a blind faith, only believing their skills when they are called upon, or actually have to use them, personal fear controls most people's actions, and at that point, most people will crumble, this is what I like about my current training, learn to deal with being hit, it's going to happen, it's how you respond to the big hit, the fast person, the knife, the multiple adversaries. Self defense is how you survive, not how you look.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There are folks who choose exactly that in their music. They want to be able to play the songs they like, and that style is what they learn to play.

When I was in my high school long fist class, during the weekend my long fist teacher brought us to visit a local preying mantis school. I found those PM guys trained their form in much

- faster speed, and
- smaller circle.

That was the day that I liked to look at one thing from many different angles.

Here is my questions.

- If one MA system doesn't have side kick and roundhouse kick, is that normal, or is that abnormal?
- If you train that style, would you like to know how to do side kick and roundhouse kick?

 

[drop bear]

This style no style comes up a bit when kung fu guys for example start trying to crack things like takedown defence.

And will try to find a way to do it within some sort of story based constraint rather than just finding the best method to solve their problems.

But going out and using any effective method even if it runs outside the principles of their martial art is still consistent. You are still all going to train the same basic ideas.

You are just removing the artificial constraints placed on that style.

Evidence based.

Story based.

But it is still a style.

 

[jobo]

Just to be a nudge, i would say 10 directions- up and down as well.

If i really wanted to be technical, i would say 360 (or more- spherical not circular) directions to move.

(None of that has anything to do with your actual point though, which i agree with).

or more ? really, if you want to be ' technical ' how many degrees do you think a sphere has ?

 

[drop bear]

Just to be a nudge, i would say 10 directions- up and down as well.

If i really wanted to be technical, i would say 360 (or more- spherical not circular) directions to move.

(None of that has anything to do with your actual point though, which i agree with).

There are a lot of different ways to hit those directions as well. So I might go the same direction twice but use different footwork to get there.

 

[pdg]

I have no idea what's going on here, I'm quite sure I'm not that drunk - yet...

@drop bear brings reason to a thread that I thought was an utterly lost cause.


Seriously dude, like wtf