MMA is like Facebook?

[FrontKick-Jab-Punch]

What I mean by that is, on FB we may have 100s of superficial friends, but that doesn't necessarily mean we've developed true, deep friendships there. I heard someone argue that MMA is like that: by combining so many techniques and styles, a practitioner may be a skilled fighter overall, but doesn't have any depth in a particular style or art. Thoughts?

How many MMAers started by getting a black belt in a particular style and then moved on to MMA vs. how many MMAers actually began training from scratch in MMA? Is MMA a "style" of its own? Is MMA what Bruce Lee's JKD started out to be (only using the most practical and effective pieces of an art, and realizing that it must be tailored to the individual rather than taught inflexibly to everyone)? More thoughts?

I don't know a lot about MMA so I don't have any particular biases one way or another about it. I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions!

FKJP

 

[Kalamazoo Ninja]

Ninja focus on breaking your spirit rather than the body...if you break one the other follows...I would be very excited to see an experienced Ninjutsu practioner get in a MMA ring. Remember MMA is a sport...Ninpo Taijutsu is for life or death situations

 

[Tony Dismukes]

MMA as it stands today is really its own art, although it has foundations in a number of older systems. In the past, most fighters came with strong backgrounds in other arts but these days more and more fighters are starting out training pure MMA from the beginning of their careers.

As far as "depth" in a given art goes - there are plenty of MMA fighters who have way more depth in their chosen art(s) than anyone on this discussion board. Renzo Gracie probably has 30,000+ hours of BJJ practice under his belt. Randy Couture probably has an equivalent amount of experience in wrestling. That's just in their primary arts. In their "secondary" arts, they typically have more than enough training to qualify for black belt status. (Note that I am talking about high-level fighters here. If you look at an amateur fighter making his debut at a local venue, the expereince level will typically be much lower.)

Modern MMA is a competitive fighting sport which uses whatever techniques, tactics, principles, and strategies the competitors find will work in the environment they have to work in. There is room for some debate about whether those techniques, tactics, principles, and strategies are truly the "most practical and effective" pieces of the arts they are derived from in general or just the most practical and effective peices in that particular environment.

 

[Cyriacus]

It depends. Its easy to wipe a brush over MMA as being a jumble of different things, but its only a jumble as far as the sheer number of things you need to know to not get caught out with "i have no idea what that is what do i do!". You focus on what you focus on, and it becomes less of a jumble. If youre into boxing, then you can learn MMA and emphasize your training in boxing. And so on.

But in MMA, if you dont learn the other sides of it youre at a disadvantage over someone who specializes in something different whos learnt your stuff especially so that they can circumvent it.

 

[Kalamazoo Ninja]

I mean typically today every MMA fighter needs to have basic skill in:
.Judo/Wrestling
.Karate/striking/boxing

Kicking really is nothing special in the MMA world...all I ever see is that stupid Mui Tai side kick which is very easy to counter.

What would really separate you as an expert fighter is if you have skill in:
.Counter Punching (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)
.Grappling/Joint manipulation (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)
.Warrior Spirit and endurance (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)

If you want to add some wing chun or kung fu to the mix that would only help

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

MMA is its own art with a million variations...one for every (legitimate) practitioner.

 

[Cyriacus]

I mean typically today every MMA fighter needs to have basic skill in:
.Judo/Wrestling
.Karate/striking/boxing

Kicking really is nothing special in the MMA world...all I ever see is that stupid Mui Tai side kick which is very easy to counter.

What would really separate you as an expert fighter is if you have skill in:
.Counter Punching (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)
.Grappling/Joint manipulation (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)
.Warrior Spirit and endurance (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)

If you want to add some wing chun or kung fu to the mix that would only help

So, youre suggesting making an even bigger jumble?

And the reason you dont see many of those systems in MMA often is because they have their own formats to work in. If you learn MMA, you dont make a habit of expressing your MMA training by going to kickboxing circuits. Or, maybe some people do, but normally if you wanna kickbox you go learn kickboxing.

Also, Counter Punching = Boxing, Grappling/Joint Manipulation = BJJ, and Warrior Spirit and Endurance = MMA Training and possibly some guy telling you youre a warrior.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ninja focus on breaking your spirit rather than the body...if you break one the other follows...I would be very excited to see an experienced Ninjutsu practioner get in a MMA ring. Remember MMA is a sport...Ninpo Taijutsu is for life or death situations

I mean typically today every MMA fighter needs to have basic skill in:
.Judo/Wrestling
.Karate/striking/boxing

Kicking really is nothing special in the MMA world...all I ever see is that stupid Mui Tai side kick which is very easy to counter.

What would really separate you as an expert fighter is if you have skill in:
.Counter Punching (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)
.Grappling/Joint manipulation (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)
.Warrior Spirit and endurance (Ninjutsu/Jujutsu)

If you want to add some wing chun or kung fu to the mix that would only help

Wow. You really need to step away from the TV once in a while.
I really hope that you're a troll.

 

[Kalamazoo Ninja]

Fight me if you don't like me. MMA is not a art it is a sport. Mixed Martial arts meaning its using previously existing martial arts. Anyone who thinks MMA is an actual style is an idiot.

 

[Cyriacus]

Fight me if you don't like me. MMA is not a art it is a sport. Mixed Martial arts meaning its using previously existing martial arts. Anyone who thinks MMA is an actual style is an idiot.

Im sorry, i missed the part where anyone said anything to the contrary.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Fight me if you don't like me.

Is that how things are run these days? Whoever is the better fighter is right? Good to know.

MMA is not a art it is a sport. Mixed Martial arts meaning its using previously existing martial arts. Anyone who thinks MMA is an actual style is an idiot.

So all other martial arts dont use previously existing martial arts? And if it does, that means its a sport? And if I don't understand that, I'm an idiot? Well, I guess I'm an idiot, so can you explain you're reasoning here?

Also, if ninjutsu is the backbone of all martial arts, wouldn't that mean all arts use ninjutsu, a previously existing martial art? If that's the case (which I doubt), wouldn't that make all styles just a sport? Or am I just being an idiot again, and missing something in the logic flow here?

 

[Kalamazoo Ninja]

I was talking to the guy who called me a troll. He didn't contribute anything to the conversation and insulted me.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Im sorry, i missed the part where anyone said anything to the contrary.

May be wrong, but I believe he's referring to me stating it's an art with a million different variations, and dirty dog saying he hopes that kalamazoo's a troll.

 

[Kalamazoo Ninja]

Let me clarify. When you play for sport (Judo/Karate/MMA) typically the losers are not dead.

And all martial arts came from China

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Let me clarify. When you play for sport (Judo/Karate/MMA) typically the losers are not dead.

Someone needs to die for it to be considered a martial art? Sorry if it seems like I'm just being obnoxious, but what you are saying honestly does not make logical sense to me at all.

And all martial arts came from China

This is simply not true. Martial arts that originated in Africa or South America and originated centuries ago would have had almost no way to have originated in China. A good many of them do, but not all.

 

[Cyriacus]

May be wrong, but I believe he's referring to me stating it's an art with a million different variations, and dirty dog saying he hopes that kalamazoo's a troll.

Well, anyone who changes a system to suit themself is making a variation of it. Otherwise there wouldnt be multiple different systems in the first place.

I was talking to the guy who called me a troll. He didn't contribute anything to the conversation and insulted me.

Fair enough.

Is that how things are run these days? Whoever is the better fighter is right? Good to know.

So all other martial arts dont use previously existing martial arts? And if it does, that means its a sport? And if I don't understand that, I'm an idiot? Well, I guess I'm an idiot, so can you explain you're reasoning here?

Also, if ninjutsu is the backbone of all martial arts, wouldn't that mean all arts use ninjutsu, a previously existing martial art? If that's the case (which I doubt), wouldn't that make all styles just a sport? Or am I just being an idiot again, and missing something in the logic flow here?

Did Ninjutsu come from China, or was it made out of Chinese systems?

Let me clarify. When you play for sport (Judo/Karate/MMA) typically the losers are not dead.

And all martial arts came from China

When you learn any given 'deadly' art these days you typically refrain from killing your training partners. Plenty of the stuff in 'sport' systems could be used to kill someone either by sustained use, sheer volume, or not being on a mat.

Someone needs to die for it to be considered a martial art? Sorry if it seems like I'm just being obnoxious, but what you are saying honestly does not make logical sense to me at all.


This is simply not true. Martial arts that originated in Africa or South America and originated centuries ago would have had almost no way to have originated in China. A good many of them do, but not all.

Also, what country something comes from doesnt mean much when Chinese systems are radically different from one another.

 

[Kalamazoo Ninja]

Someone needs to die for it to be considered a martial art? Sorry if it seems like I'm just being obnoxious, but what you are saying honestly does not make logical sense to me at all.


This is simply not true. Martial arts that originated in Africa or South America and originated centuries ago would have had almost no way to have originated in China. A good many of them do, but not all.

True the martial way is to preserve life but when you are talking about arts that originated on the battlefield such as Ninjutsu. It would be foolish to think the techniques couldn't kill you. Budo Ninpo Taijutsu is an art of survival...thinking it as a sport would be a grave mistake should you ever fight a Ninja master!

And sure I guess savages hitting each other with sticks could be considered 'martial art' but when you talk sophisticated martial arts your talking China...thousands of years not centuries

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Did Ninjutsu come from China, or was it made out of Chinese systems?

Don't see a point to responding to everything else, as you are making fair points, that I tend to agree with. But, you did ask this question after my post, so I'll respond to it. I hope it's a rhetorical question, that you or someone else will provide me an answer for, but I honestly don't know the answer to this question. However, based on his signature suggesting it's the base for all MA's, it would seem that, in his mind at least (not saying that meaning his mind is correct or incorrect, I simply don't know enough to support or argue his claim), ninjutsu was not made out of chinese systems, but rather all chinese systems were made out of ninjutsu.
That wasn't really the point I was getting at with my questions, just that many martial arts, at one point or another, had developed from another martial art, and are still considered martial arts. I see no reason why MMA should be any different.

 

[Kalamazoo Ninja]

The history of the origins of Ninjutsu have always been shrouded in mystery

 

[Cyriacus]

Don't see a point to responding to everything else, as you are making fair points, that I tend to agree with. But, you did ask this question after my post, so I'll respond to it. I hope it's a rhetorical question, that you or someone else will provide me an answer for, but I honestly don't know the answer to this question. However, based on his signature suggesting it's the base for all MA's, it would seem that, in his mind at least (not saying that meaning his mind is correct or incorrect, I simply don't know enough to support or argue his claim), ninjutsu was not made out of chinese systems, but rather all chinese systems were made out of ninjutsu.
That wasn't really the point I was getting at with my questions, just that many martial arts, at one point or another, had developed from another martial art, and are still considered martial arts. I see no reason why MMA should be any different.

I dont know the answer either. Thats why i asked