Master Wong's latest Wing Chun video

[Wingsingh]

 

[mook jong man]

All he had to do was sink his elbow , cutting down through the weakest part of the grip , which is the thumb.
At the same time do a centreline punch with his free hand and a low heel kick to the closest knee.

Three simultaneous movements , that take half a second.
Doesn't require any risky turning of the body.
Direct , minimal use of brute strength , economy of movement.
Real Wing Chun.

 

[Wingsingh]

Mook, why wasn't that 'real Wing Chun' in your opinion?

 

[Cyriacus]

Mook, why wasn't that 'real Wing Chun' in your opinion?

I dont need to know WC to know that he answers that question in his post when he explains his alternative.

EDIT: Not to imply i see anything wrong with that video from a non-WC perspective.

 

[Wingsingh]

Am a Wing Chun novice but I see Wing Chun principles in the video, that's all am saying.

 

[mook jong man]

Mook, why wasn't that 'real Wing Chun' in your opinion?

Because it ignores basic Wing Chun principles and core concepts for one thing.

Let's look at the obvious things first , these will probably be apparent even to the non Wing Chun people.

Stance - there was no stance
Guard - there was no guard
Correct center line punch - not even close
Optimum angle - no the angle of the arm was already in a collapsed position by the time he was grabbed (see incorrect punch and no guard)

The Wing Chun system uses very short , sharp and compact movements that are extremely direct and to the centerline.
The technique in the video more closely resembled Krav Maga in my opinion.

No decent Wing Chun practitioner would ever turn their body completely side on to an attacker and expose their back to get out of an arm grab.
The most you would pivot is 45 degrees , or another alternative is to step in , but always focused towards the centerline

The technique with the elbow was just wrong with too much wasted movement.
Two options properly using the elbow , he could have just clamped his free hand over Wong's gripping hand (I wont call him master) brought his elbow over on to the centerline with minimal movement , then folded his elbow down , breaking Wong's wrist , can be used with pivot or step.
The main point here is that the elbow is pointed to the centerline , which is totally disregarded in the video.

Another option is to fold the elbow over on to the centerline , placing pressure on the wrist and breaking the grip , then stepping forward with your guarding hand up protecting your face and ramming the point of your elbow into the attackers sternum.
Why bother trying to elbow strike an attacker in the face when it is more direct to go straight to the sternum.

In my lineage we use these 5 principles to evaluate the quality of Wing Chun.
Simplicity
Directness
Practicality
Economy of movement
Minimum use of brute strength

I think what was exhibited in the video fails most of that criteria.

But good luck to him , he's probably laughing all the way to the bank making a truck load of cash out of people who don't know any better.

 

[wtxs]

Mook, why wasn't that 'real Wing Chun' in your opinion?

As Mook had said ...

All he had to do was sink his elbow , cutting down through the weakest part of the grip , which is the thumb.
At the same time do a centreline punch with his free hand and a low heel kick to the closest knee.

Three simultaneous movements , that take half a second.
Doesn't require any risky turning of the body.
Direct , minimal use of brute strength , economy of movement.
Real Wing Chun.

WC concept, therefore "real WC" ... other wise you are just playing "chasing the hand" game.

 

[yak sao]

Because it ignores basic Wing Chun principles and core concepts for one thing.

Let's look at the obvious things first , these will probably be apparent even to the non Wing Chun people.

Stance - there was no stance
Guard - there was no guard
Correct center line punch - not even close
Optimum angle - no the angle of the arm was already in a collapsed position by the time he was grabbed (see incorrect punch and no guard)

The Wing Chun system uses very short , sharp and compact movements that are extremely direct and to the centerline.
The technique in the video more closely resembled Krav Maga in my opinion.

No decent Wing Chun practitioner would ever turn their body completely side on to an attacker and expose their back to get out of an arm grab.
The most you would pivot is 45 degrees , or another alternative is to step in , but always focused towards the centerline

The technique with the elbow was just wrong with too much wasted movement.
Two options properly using the elbow , he could have just clamped his free hand over Wong's gripping hand (I wont call him master) brought his elbow over on to the centerline with minimal movement , then folded his elbow down , breaking Wong's wrist , can be used with pivot or step.
The main point here is that the elbow is pointed to the centerline , which is totally disregarded in the video.

Another option is to fold the elbow over on to the centerline , placing pressure on the wrist and breaking the grip , then stepping forward with your guarding hand up protecting your face and ramming the point of your elbow into the attackers sternum.
Why bother trying to elbow strike an attacker in the face when it is more direct to go straight to the sternum.

In my lineage we use these 5 principles to evaluate the quality of Wing Chun.
Simplicity
Directness
Practicality
Economy of movement
Minimum use of brute strength

I think what was exhibited in the video fails most of that criteria.

But good luck to him , he's probably laughing all the way to the bank making a truck load of cash out of people who don't know any better.

But otherwise it was fine........

 

[Nabakatsu]

But otherwise it was fine........

Hah..

 

[Cyriacus]

From watching a few of his videos, its worth mentioning that he fully acknowledges that what hes doing aint WC. Hes doing his own thing with a WC base.

 

[mook jong man]

I think even saying that he is using a Wing Chun base is being extremely generous.
A base would imply that you would be using something as intrinsic as centerline theory , but that doesn't seem to be the case , as evidenced by the defender turning their body completely side on to the attacker.

In my opinion you do not get to pick and choose which important Wing Chun principles you choose to adhere to and still be able to call it Wing Chun.
It's a bit like being pregnant , you can't be half pregnant.
You are either pregnant or you are not.

 

[Cyriacus]

I think even saying that he is using a Wing Chun base is being extremely generous.
A base would imply that you would be using something as intrinsic as centerline theory , but that doesn't seem to be the case , as evidenced by the defender turning their body completely side on to the attacker.

He has a whole video about why he personally doesnt use the centerline. He isnt doing Wing Chun, thats already been established. Hes doing his own thing which he made out of Wing Chun.

 

[geezer]

OK guys I'm confused, please explain this clip to me. Wong has a student demonstrate a defensive move which he easily counters, and then chokes the student. And the student's movement is supposed to be correct? Regardless of whether it's WC or not, I have never seen a teacher promote a self defense move by showing how easily it can be countered.​Seems like an odd way to promote your system.

 

[mook jong man]

He has a whole video about why he personally doesnt use the centerline. He isnt doing Wing Chun, thats already been established. Hes doing his own thing which he made out of Wing Chun.

For someone that says that he's not doing Wing Chun , he sure likes trading on the name.
I'm just saying , what with a video titled Wing Chun - how to overcome an arm grab and the words Wing Chun master tv superimposed over the video.

 

[Drasken]

I have watched some of this man's videos. It looks like it can be effective, but it's obviously not traditional WC.

So, from an outsider's perspective ( take it for what it's worth ) I have no problem with some of the stuff he teaches. HOWEVER while I've heard him say it isn't classic Wing Chun, it doesn't stop him from plastering WC all over his videos and such. I have a major problem with that.
Why would he do this? Because Wing Chun is seeing a huge rise in popularity. Same thing as Krav Maga in the past few years. As a Krav Maga practitioner I get so annoyed when someone markets some BS as Krav Maga, and it only uses concepts of the system... and I say concepts in the most loose definition of the term. I can't expect a WC practitioner to feel any different about this guy.

So can his system work? Sure, I've seen some decent stuff and somewhat decent advice. But don't call it Wing Chun. If you put bunny ears on a dog and teach it to hop around, it doesn't make it a friggin rabbit. So don't claim something that it isn't. If your system is worth using, it will grow based on its own merit. But it's unethical to dress it up in a disguise to make it more appealing to people that have no way of knowing any better.

 

[Cyriacus]

For someone that says that he's not doing Wing Chun , he sure likes trading on the name.
I'm just saying , what with a video titled Wing Chun - how to overcome an arm grab and the words Wing Chun master tv superimposed over the video.

*shrugs* - Its just advertising.

 

[Drasken]

*shrugs* - Its just advertising.

Yeah it is, but it's kind of advertising of the false variety unfortunately. I might have more respect for this guy and his system if it wasn't advertised as something it wasn't.

 

[mook jong man]

*shrugs* - Its just advertising.

Yep , false advertising.

Beat me to it Drasken.

 

[mook jong man]

OK guys I'm confused, please explain this clip to me. Wong has a student demonstrate a defensive move which he easily counters, and then chokes the student. And the student's movement is supposed to be correct? Regardless of whether it's WC or not, I have never seen a teacher promote a self defense move by showing how easily it can be countered.​Seems like an odd way to promote your system.

I was thinking that myself Geezer , he gets his student to do an incorrect over committed movement placing himself in a perilous position.
Then takes advantage of it by putting his student in a choke hold.

Bizarre.

 

[Cyriacus]

Yeah it is, but it's kind of advertising of the false variety unfortunately. I might have more respect for this guy and his system if it wasn't advertised as something it wasn't.

Yep , false advertising.

Beat me to it Drasken.

Yes, it is. But how many people have found it as a result?

Mind you, im not saying its a good thing. I was originally just saying. Its advertising.