MA and shoulder dislocation/subluxation

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by kicka, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. kicka

    kicka White Belt

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    The worst part about it:
    recurrence. So i am amongst those, having my right shoulder semi-dislocated (this means it doesn't dislocate fully and every time i can by myself put it back, and it is not that much painful) once every 2-3-4 months. I live with it the last 2 and a half years.

    I've been to many doctors
    A chiropractor, a couple of orthopaedics, a physician. None could make an accurate diagnosis, but i can understand that. They tell me i'm fine, the physicians subscribed me an absolutely boring set of A LOT of what i call body-building-style kind of exercises(i know about the opinions on what i call boring, but i just cannot do something everyday for the next months or years if i don't enjoy it or find it at least interesting.) Chiropractor insist the problem comes from my left foot and has to do with body alignment. I am looking at it too and trying to correct my posture in general doing daily zhan zhuang. But i know this will take time and is also something i do because i love doing it and not to purposely solve my shoulder. Orthopaedic insisted i do some x-rays and after i did he said he doesn't see anything that looks as if i should worry and subscribed me some medicine that was supposed to help my joints which i took for 1-2 months i think, but finally did nothing. I still get that semi-dislocated shoulder every now and then.

    Another subluxation
    I've read almost everything there is on the internet regarding the subject, and lately, for about a month and a half i've started following some qigong exercises which i at least enjoy doing. But a couple of days ago i had another subluxation. That happened to be at training. Maybe i should say I am not thinking about having a surgery (well at least not yet). It happens at training too but not only there, nor did it start there. It started with me having an injury and after that it just kept on happening on various environments and situations.

    Worried about my training
    So, apart from my general well being i am worried about my training too. I keep on telling myself i should let my fears/worries go and just focus on what i do and enjoy it, which i already do. I'm practising wing chun with a sifu that have an approach that i find that suits me, a nice balance between what many call external/internal training. Takes it slow and emphasises at the internal side but also includes lots of drills and sparring - mostly chi sao but free sparring too once in a while.
    But. I can't help it, I keep on thinking i won't ever make it and go any further with this problem/sensitivity i have with my shoulder.
    On positive days i think i will get stronger and overcome it and that i will soon find something that suits me as a treatment approach, which i will follow. I am doing exercises regarding it the whole time but not the same as after a couple of months the repetitive exercises are killing me out of boredom.
    On negative days i guess i'm on forums whining about it..
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    ?????
    you have been given some exercises to do by your doctor, which you refuse to engage with, but you have come on here to ask strangers who know nothing about your condition what exercises you should do to improve it???

    eeerr , try the ones your dr gave you
     
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  3. kicka

    kicka White Belt

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    I posted that with the hope someone might have/had something similar and could relate to and, perhaps, i could get the chance to listen how that turned out for somebody else. May not be a common thing but it's not such a rare condition either, from what i read.

    It's amongst those conditions that are a little bit controversial. Some doctors insist on the approach to strengthen the muscles around the joints where there are these researches claiming it's all about the ligaments, no matter how much one strengthens their muscles, dislocations still reoccur. Then there's the more holistic approach claiming it's about how your whole skeleton is aligned and not only that one specific part of the joint too.

    But anyways, thanks for your interest the advice and the reply.
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    once you have dislocated a shoulder, there is likely to be a weakness there, there was a thread a couple of weeks ago where this and rehabilitation was discussed.

    the two approaches arnt in competition, strengthen the. Shoulders AND strengthen/ realign the rest of the body whilst you are at it,

    but your not doing the prescribed exercises coz they are DULL, not because you don't think they will work, as a general rule exercise is dull, but it brings its own rewards in endorphins and being a good bit stronger / fitter than you are now, even if you still have a wonky shoulder if may be not quite as wonky, try it and find out
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  5. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    I was a full-time NCAA Div I athletic trainer for 15 years. I still do it part time. Athletic training is sports medicine, not strength & conditioning...

    There’s very little ligament involvement in shoulder stability. It’s pretty much all muscular. A stronger shoulder will be far less susceptible to dislocation/subluxation than a weaker one, all else being equal. Skeletal anatomy plays a role, it not too much in my experience. And sorry, but the way you walk doesn’t have any correlation with shoulder dislocation unless you’re constantly falling or somehow violently throwing your shoulder out of the socket when swinging your arms. If you do that, they should do a study on you and publish it in a medical journal.

    Do the exercises your orthopedist prescribed. Better yet, see a physical therapist/physio therapist (depending on what they’re called where you’re from). The more it subluxes/dislocates, the more damage you’re doing to the joint. Every time it happens, you’re damaging the labrum (cartilage on the scapular side of the joint).

    I’ve rehabbed many chronic dislocators. Some successfully, but many weren’t successfully rehabbed. The more it happens, the more the musculature gets stretched. Sometimes, the musculature gets so stretched that it won’t tighten up enough no matter how much they strengthen it. That’s when surgery is the only option. But guess what? After surgery, those people need to strengthen the shoulder or else the surgery will be a complete waste of time. I’ve seen that happen too, unfortunately.

    You’ve tried everything but strengthening, and nothing worked. Guess what’s left to try? Yup, strengthening. And it won’t be a couple of days or even weeks thing. If you do everything your orthopeadist and or PT tells you and you still don’t have the results they told you you’d have, then surgery is the only option left. Only one way to find out.

    Or you could go on believing that acupuncture, chi gung, chiropractic care, etc. will fix it. What’s the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over, and thinking you’ll get a different result.
     
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  6. kicka

    kicka White Belt

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    Not from my experience, exercise has never been a dull thing for me to do, rather the time i have and am mostly anticipating.
    Unfortunately for me, i have it as a general belief that if it's dull it's not going to work either.
    As "if it hurts, you're doing it wrong".

    But i get your point, or i try to get it at least. Though i've to tell you it's no news to me, I'll try and reconsider that and I'll search for the thread you referred too, thanks.
     
  7. DanT

    DanT 2nd Black Belt

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    If you have a repeat dislocation, the only way to properly correct it most of the time is surgery.

    Since this is a repeat dislocation, you should look into surgery.

    Continue to do the exercises your doctor recommended to you. Ask him his opinion on surgery and whether or not you should get an MRI.

    Most likely correcting this issue means surgery.
     
  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i think you have made your mind up NOT to do the strength exercises recommended by your doctor, as such you will therefore continue to have you arm pop out as you look for a miracle cure that isn't dull.

    exercise is dull, playing sport isn't, training ma isn't, riding a mountain bike isn't, but the exercises that make you good at those things, push ups, pull ups, squats, bench pressing etal are dull, . Those build the foundation of your athletic ability and in your case quite possibly improve your wonky shoulder.

    they should also hurt, if they don't you are not going hard enough, the pain helps to over come the dullness.
     
  9. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Your belief is immaterial. You have doc and an internet voice who states he has extensive relevant experience (hey, it's the web; I don't doubt him, what he says is consistent with my own knowledge, but that doesn't mean he's not fibbing...), and other random web voices telling you do the exercises, no matter how dull you think they are, to strengthen the shoulder... but they're dull, so you don't want to do them. YOUR SHOULDER IS RANDOMLY SLIPPING OUT OF JOINT! That's a freakin' problem. Might happen to you sometime when it ain't so good, right? Maybe, just maybe, suck up the dullness and do the exercises so that you don't have to spend several MONTHS recovering from surgery?
     
  10. kicka

    kicka White Belt

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    thank you everyone for your replies, i'll be away for a week but will come back and give an update here..:brb:
     
  11. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    At the end of the day, we’re all random people on the internet. But it’s not exactly like I’m pretending to be a French model to go out with a gorgeous woman here...
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Rehab exercises rarely bring much of the endorphin reward because they use such low resistance. They are inexcusably dull. And they've helped me avoid surgery in at least one case and regained me full use of my shoulder in another. Inexcusably dull, and well worth the boredom.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    What is that based upon?
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    yea but he can endorphin release his legs whilst doing the reab on his shoulder
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I just make fun of my PT if I'm doing the exercises there. It passes the time and amuses the technicians.
     
  16. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    PT clinics get pretty dull. I found that out real quickly when I shadowed a few PTs. Hence why I decided to go the AT route. The only dull moments in any college training room I’ve ever worked at where when no one was in there, which was quite rare. Spend some time around football linemen or baseball pitchers; they’re constantly trying to one-up each other or out-clown each other. The crazy $hit that goes on in and around college training rooms is unparalleled, both by the athletes and staff. Every time my wife would stop in or be around anyone associated, she’d shake her head and ask “where do you find these people?” I’d always reply “they find me.” Sometimes she’d ask “when are you going to find a real job where you’re not clowning around all day?” to which I’d reply “when they stop paying me with real money.”

    Ah, the good old day. 60-70 hour work weeks, getting on and off airplanes, spending holidays with teams rather than family. :) It was great until we wanted to start a family. Then it got pretty old watching my wife essentially being a single parent. I keep up appearances at one of my former training rooms. I walk in for an hour and it’s like I never left. The students’ faces change, but the ridiculous stays the same.

    Sorry for the sidetrack.123
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
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