Looking for some Self-defense and Martial Arts Assumptions

[dvcochran]

You are an expert once you get your black belt.

 

[dvcochran]

You can learn all you need to know about MA or SD from Youtube.

 

[jobo]

You're right - there's a difference between what people know/understand, and how they act on that information.

If you're referring to the classes delivering a good standard of fitness, that's not even really possible for most. Most students attend a couple of classes a week. Even if we spent 30 minutes of those classes on fitness, that would still not be enough to deliver that level for most people (and most students won't be satisfied with a class that is 1/3 to 1/2 not "martial arts"). They have to do it outside class to get there.

Yes exactly, I've said before, a kUng Fu class I attended in the mid 80s spent an hour of its 90 mins doing grueling fitness, times 3a week, left me in seriously good condition,

With a shorter run time and people who want to spend an hour doing kata or flow drills, the fitness benefits scale down some what

 

[Danny T]

This is just going to disappear down a semantically raBbit hole. People can call themselves and what they do anything they want until they run into the law,

The rest of the world has various expectations as to what things mean, if I order a home mechanic and he can't fix my car as he has no practical experiance, I'm not going to consider him a mechanic, no matter what he calls himself. I had this where one guy turned up, told me what was wrong with the car, fuel injection, a fact I told him on the phone and then wanted a100 quid for the diagnosis, as he didn't have the knowledge to fix it.

Like wise, if your martial arts are some what light on the martial aspects, selling your services as a martial artist would come close to False advertising, unless you included a rider, " can't fight"

While I and many other look at the martial arts as a fighting skill development there are many others that do not even though they are using fighting moves. Hence the problem with many being unable to fight. Self defense/personal protection is even a another matter. Just this past weekend a very good, well respected cage fighter in my area was knocked out in a road rage incident. Very good fighter but not street savvy, according to his friend who was with him at the time he simply didn't recognize the body language the enraged guy displayed prior to attacking. Good fighter who was bad at self defense.

 

[jobo]

While I and many other look at the martial arts as a fighting skill development there are many others that do not even though they are using fighting moves. Hence the problem with many being unable to fight. Self defense/personal protection is even a another matter. Just this past weekend a very good, well respected cage fighter in my area was knocked out in a road rage incident. Very good fighter but not street savvy, according to his friend who was with him at the time he simply didn't recognize the body language the enraged guy displayed prior to attacking. Good fighter who was bad at self defense.

Anyone can get sucker punched, it is one of the differences between ring fighting and the street, they don't touch gloves before they try and scramble your brains, with out knowing the guy, I suspect it the punch had missed, then he would have fair pretty well in what came after.

 

[yak sao]

You are an expert once you get your black belt.

And to add to this, once you're a black belt you're always a black belt. In other words, no need to train hard once you've reached this milestone.

This is what I refer to as " short black belt syndrome"...As the belly grows, the belt gets shorter

 

[yak sao]

Oh, and let's not forget that when you become a black belt you have to register your hands with the FBI as deadly weapons

 

[JowGaWolf]

orry to get into replies, @JowGaWolf - this one's important to dig into a bit

No problem. Replies are cool on this one. There are a lot less myths and assumptions than I thought there would be When I was trying to think of some, I could only get about 3 or 4 before I started feel like I was reaching.

 

[jobo]

And to add to this, once you're a black belt you're always a black belt. In other words, no need to train hard once you've reached this milestone.

This is what I refer to as " short black belt syndrome"...As the belly grows, the belt gets shorter

That's not a misconception, it's the truth, lots of fat out of condition black belts about.

I suggested they should be assessed on a yearly basis and demoted accordingly, several people got quite upset

 

[Danny T]

Anyone can get sucker punched, it is one of the differences between ring fighting and the street, they don't touch gloves before they try and scramble your brains, with out knowing the guy, I suspect it the punch had missed, then he would have fair pretty well in what came after.

The thing is the attacker was standing right in front of him enraged but calculated his body language was shouting but the mma fighter didn't understand the language. And that is what many of us are saying is a part of self defense. He is a very good fighter but self defense wise he was lacking. There is more to self defense than being able to fight.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Oh, and let's not forget that when you become a black belt you have to register your hands with the FBI as deadly weapons

This gives me a good idea for a video to go along with the article.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's not a misconception, it's the truth, lots of fat out of condition black belts about.

I suggested they should be assessed on a yearly basis and demoted accordingly, several people got quite upset

This gets more to what the belt means, than a myth, though. IMO, the belt marks a point reached, a bit like an Olympic medal or other trophy. We don't go back and reassess whether someone is still an Olympian every few years. Of course, the problem comes when people think a BB is all about current physical ability. If that's the actual expectation, then it should be re-evaluated occasionally. But I've not seen a system yet where that was the actual expectation of the rank.

 

[jobo]

The thing is the attacker was standing right in front of him enraged but calculated his body language was shouting but the mma fighter didn't understand the language. And that is what many of us are saying is a part of self defense. He is a very good fighter but self defense wise he was lacking. There is more to self defense than being able to fight.

Well yes, being able to predict an argument might turn violent, is a skill that's not really present in ring fighting, or you can just assume that all arguments might turn violent, in which case you won't be caught unaware..

Ambush attacks are rare and by definition hard to predict and prepare for, far more common is two blokes getting more and more Wound up, till one throws a punch.

As a young man I was considered a snapper, i.e. One who went from nothing to all out attack in half a second, that did give me quite an advantage, but it's only an advantage as it's rare and they don't expect it

 

[jobo]

This gets more to what the belt means, than a myth, though. IMO, the belt marks a point reached, a bit like an Olympic medal or other trophy. We don't go back and reassess whether someone is still an Olympian every few years. Of course, the problem comes when people think a BB is all about current physical ability. If that's the actual expectation, then it should be re-evaluated occasionally. But I've not seen a system yet where that was the actual expectation of the rank.

Hmm, Olympic champions, fa, cup winners generally refers to themselves in the past tense,

Even saying ( present tense) I am a medal winner( in 1992) doesn't suggest doesn't suggest you can still run it jump to the same standard, where as saying I'm a black belt does suggest some physical ability that may no longer be possessed,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hmm, Olympic champions, fa, cup winners generally refers to themselves in the past tense,

Even saying ( present tense) I am a medal winner( in 1992) doesn't suggest doesn't suggest you can still run it jump to the same standard, where as saying I'm a black belt does suggest some physical ability that may no longer be possessed,

Again, it only suggests that if people expect that. It's something we (in the MA community) haven't done a good job of clarifying. I would argue that lack of clarity is the issue, not the black belt around the old guy's waist.

To use an extreme example, I don't expect an elderly BB (who has had the rank for decades) to have the same fighting/physical ability as a 20-something who just achieved the rank. I expect that older BB to have a lot more knowledge and understanding (if they are actively training/teaching). The combination of physical skill and knowledge/comprehension is what makes the BB meaningful. Some folks bring a lot more of one of those than the other, and the confusion comes when we don't clarify that combination. The only reason I'd step someone down from a BB I awarded would be if they no longer met what I expect from an existing BB (as opposed to the testing requirements). If someone doesn't train for a while, I have to determine if their combination of physical skill and comprehension still meet my expectation. If not, they'll have to work their way back up to that rank.

 

[Danny T]

I tend to word it as; "I've attained a Black Belt in...." or "I've ranked Black Belt in..." vs "I'm a Black Belt" after all I'm not a belt of any kind.

 

[jobo]

Again, it only suggests that if people expect that. It's something we (in the MA community) haven't done a good job of clarifying. I would argue that lack of clarity is the issue, not the black belt around the old guy's waist.

To use an extreme example, I don't expect an elderly BB (who has had the rank for decades) to have the same fighting/physical ability as a 20-something who just achieved the rank. I expect that older BB to have a lot more knowledge and understanding (if they are actively training/teaching). The combination of physical skill and knowledge/comprehension is what makes the BB meaningful. Some folks bring a lot more of one of those than the other, and the confusion comes when we don't clarify that combination. The only reason I'd step someone down from a BB I awarded would be if they no longer met what I expect from an existing BB (as opposed to the testing requirements). If someone doesn't train for a while, I have to determine if their combination of physical skill and comprehension still meet my expectation. If not, they'll have to work their way back up to that rank.

Well yes it's rank, my ex farther in law insisted that people called him general, even though he hadn't been any where near an army in 40 years. We just thought him an idiot, a living in the past reflected glories type idiot

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well yes it's rank, my ex farther in law insisted that people called him general, even though he hadn't been any where near an army in 40 years. We just thought him an idiot, a living in the past reflected glories type idiot

That's someone who was no longer doing the thing the rank signified. And he was expecting what used to be the norm. In the past, when titles mattered more, someone's highest attained military rank stood as a valid title for the rest of their lives. We don't care so much about titles any more in general (no pun intended), so the practice seems odd to us.

 

[drop bear]

Yes exactly, I've said before, a kUng Fu class I attended in the mid 80s spent an hour of its 90 mins doing grueling fitness, times 3a week, left me in seriously good condition,

With a shorter run time and people who want to spend an hour doing kata or flow drills, the fitness benefits scale down some what

Nah. Let's just keep assuming fitness is based on genetics or magic.

And we will all just try to vainly out technique them.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Hmm, how about "training is a substitute for real world experience", as well as "a blackbelt/master can stop attacks from behind"