Looking for some Self-defense and Martial Arts Assumptions

[oldwarrior]

I would not say fighting edge ...my be they have the aggressive edge but that can be used to defenders advantage

 

[oldwarrior]

Actually you may make a valid point as to the person in the street (ie joe public) then the edge you speak of may give them the appearance of advantage and therefore I can see what you are meaning...(sorry for not engaging brain before )

 

[oftheherd1]

The only thing close to this that I've experience was being kicked in the balls, falling to the floor, and rolling on the ground as if I was dying lol.

I think I mentioned once before that when I studied with Jhoon Goo Rhee, I wore a steel cup. Seemed a good move at the time, but it was a little oversized. I didn't realize how my precious things had moved to the back edge of the cup until I got kicked and realized my mistake. I didn't fall down, but did get weak in the knees and bent over unable to straighten up. Mr. Rhee came over with concern on his face (steel cups make a funny noise when kicked, well actually the person so kicked does), and instructed me to start jumping up and down. I looked at him in disbelief. I didn't know if he was crazy or if he thought I was. Still, one did not usually disobey Mr. Rhee, so I started trying. Dog me if it didn't work. Who knew.

It wouldn't matter, all of them are difficult to get to in the heat of a fight which is why we don't see fighters exploiting them. Some places are easier to reach than others.

I'm more inclined to believe most people just don't know how to use them. Often one is as well to wait for an opponent to unsuspectingly present them rather that seeking them out.

 

[marques]

You need to be fit before starting martial arts training.

 

[Danny T]

If people think you can calculate the difference between an angry guy and a violent guy.

And that you can see punches coming at speed.

That is a couple of misconceptions right there.

For good self defense one should learn to read body language and be prepared.

 

[jobo]

What they're more likely to do though is be prepared to cause damage and walk away without thinking about it - that's the fighting edge they may have.

I'm a good guy and I've never oncE rGREtted the damage I've caused to a bad guy, a bad guy being any one who has annoyed me to the point I have decided to damages them, which actually takes quite a lot of annoying to achieve as iM really laid back unless I'm having a bad day Or there on push bike and then not so much

 

[dvcochran]

But as the person looking for a fight would they not look for a smaller weak looking person over a beefed up body builder with stunning figure? (In a random assult)

If the guys a dick then he'll be in a fight no matter what he look or does.

Back in my college days when we bar-hopped, one of my best friends was 5'2" and 120lbs. He was always the one getting us in a scrap. A few drinks and he has an "S" on his chest. He did not care about size. But he was usually the first one on the ground also. Left to the rest of us. Good times.

 

[dvcochran]

The thing is the attacker was standing right in front of him enraged but calculated his body language was shouting but the mma fighter didn't understand the language. And that is what many of us are saying is a part of self defense. He is a very good fighter but self defense wise he was lacking. There is more to self defense than being able to fight.

Did he not understand the body language or was he too confident and didn't care? End result is the same. If the latter, that should be a good teaching moment.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Often one is as well to wait for an opponent to unsuspectingly present them rather that seeking them out.

Makes sense to me. Falls right in line with everything else about martial arts. There's a thread around here about someone looking to improve in his training, and he's seems to be doing a lot of "forced training," as in trying to do more than his body can handle without getting fatigued. Things don't work too well when forced, especially martial arts techniques.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You need to be fit before starting martial arts training.

I like this one. Because no matter how fit someone is, martial arts is always a big surprise on people. It's never the same type of fitness that most people assume will help.

 

[drop bear]

For good self defense one should learn to read body language and be prepared.

Yeah that is what catches people out with self defence. In a fight you would avoid that interview space like the plague because you just can't stop punches from there

But in a confrontation people really think they can pick that second between intent and action. Because that is where they get trained to fight from.

 

[drop bear]

Did he not understand the body language or was he too confident and didn't care? End result is the same. If the latter, that should be a good teaching moment.

It is nothing like the training generally. It is just one of those cases where your mate Barry throwing a half hated shot mid combat scenario. Does not equate to a guy who really wants to take your head off.

 

[drop bear]

Makes sense to me. Falls right in line with everything else about martial arts. There's a thread around here about someone looking to improve in his training, and he's seems to be doing a lot of "forced training," as in trying to do more than his body can handle without getting fatigued. Things don't work too well when forced, especially martial arts techniques.

And yet what is the excuse for not being able to defeat a pro MMA fighter?

Well he trains to hard.

 

[oldwarrior]

Yeah that is what catches people out with self defence. In a fight you would avoid that interview space like the plague because you just can't stop punches from there

But in a confrontation people really think they can pick that second between intent and action. Because that is where they get trained to fight from.

I agree totally ...
The first part of anything starts in the mind ...ie, be aware make no assumptions and then act ... it may well be that the best course is that you run even if that is to fatigue the "bad guy" then the "playing field" may level out ...just more hypothetical thoughts really as every situation is different and every person if different so in my opinion unless you are there you cannot talk a person through a confrontation.

 

[pdg]

I would not say fighting edge ...my be they have the aggressive edge but that can be used to defenders advantage

Actually you may make a valid point as to the person in the street (ie joe public) then the edge you speak of may give them the appearance of advantage and therefore I can see what you are meaning...(sorry for not engaging brain before )

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant.

Generally a 'good guy' will have the notion of a fair fight, when there's no such thing.

Someone out to hurt you won't be thinking about fairness or illegal moves...

 

[pdg]

I'm a good guy and I've never oncE rGREtted the damage I've caused to a bad guy, a bad guy being any one who has annoyed me to the point I have decided to damages them, which actually takes quite a lot of annoying to achieve as iM really laid back unless I'm having a bad day Or there on push bike and then not so much

The part I've highlighted there is the bit that's open to debate

 

[oldwarrior]

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant.

Generally a 'good guy' will have the notion of a fair fight, when there's no such thing.

Someone out to hurt you won't be thinking about fairness or illegal moves...

There are no illegal moves in a street fight ... Anything that is done is all up for "grabs" as to if it illegal or not ...

 

[oldwarrior]

Discussing self defense I have always found to be a very difficult topic and there is no right answers ...there can be wrong answers in part but there are no totally 100% correct answers.
What system or art is best... there isn't one ... All have there pros and all have there cons ... I would like to offer the opinion that the real con in all systems is the Human being ... as it is the human being that executes the move/technique (call it as you will) and thereby in that there is the con as human beings are fallible and not always at the peak of performance... in the dojo or training hall there is the luxury of being able to stop try again and again until it is performed correctly and even then when it becomes an old friend the dojo or training hall is not the high stress situation that the street (or indeed where most of the traditional systems were founded on or based on and where some modern systems draw from) or the battlefield... I would hazard a guess that there are many souls that were lost in battle because they did not perform a technique properly or effectively yet in the dojo or training hall/field they did...so they fell ...just like the streets of the 21rst cent they are the modern battlefield in a way and can any of us truly say that we can perform under total stress or duress ...some can and have ...and they are the true "warrior" the rest of us are untried and tested (and hopefully will remain so )

Sorry for the ramble I have just heard so so much on this topic that when I was teaching it got to the stage I refused to teach any "self defense" as it became so over powering that it detracted from the art and the real reason in this cent for studying it.


again my apologies for the rant

 

[JowGaWolf]

And yet what is the excuse for not being able to defeat a pro MMA fighter?

Well he trains to hard.

simple, "we fight the way we practice." do the wrong practice (training) and you'll get a bad performance. How can a person do well in fighting, if they don't practice fighting? How can a person do well when playing the piano, if they don't practice the piano? How can a person do well with swimming if they don't practice swimming painting?

Martial arts is the same way. If you want to be good in forms. practice forms. If you want to be good in fighting practice fighting ( via sparring).

But what I was referring by "forced training" is to make your body do more than it can handle. It won't improve performance it will actually decrease performance and result in injury. The body is not a machine, it requires periods of rest and healing. Push it too hard by over training then it won't get those periods of rest and healing that it needs to become better.

 

[jobo]

simple, "we fight the way we practice." do the wrong practice (training) and you'll get a bad performance. How can a person do well in fighting, if they don't practice fighting? How can a person do well when playing the piano, if they don't practice the piano? How can a person do well with swimming if they don't practice swimming painting?

Martial arts is the same way. If you want to be good in forms. practice forms. If you want to be good in fighting practice fighting ( via sparring).

But what I was referring by "forced training" is to make your body do more than it can handle. It won't improve performance it will actually decrease performance and result in injury. The body is not a machine, it requires periods of rest and healing. Push it too hard by over training then it won't get those periods of rest and healing that it needs to become better.

Your body requires progressive over load to improve, you need to " force it to do what it doesn't want to do, it's generally at easier to Under train than over train