Looking for some Self-defense and Martial Arts Assumptions

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by JowGaWolf, May 26, 2018.

  1. Blitz

    Blitz White Belt

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    also the idea that fights are like sparring, dont get me wrong sparring is good . but most fights are a one sided beating and over in seconds.
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    You have a talking stance? do you have to get in position before you can speak?
     
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  3. Blitz

    Blitz White Belt

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    no i meant the way you normally stand when talking to someone lol not really a stance rotfl dont know why i called it that rotfl
     
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  4. SOD-WC

    SOD-WC Orange Belt

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    But as the person looking for a fight would they not look for a smaller weak looking person over a beefed up body builder with stunning figure? (In a random assult)

    If the guys a dick then he'll be in a fight no matter what he look or does.
     
  5. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Not necessarily. I can't count how many people I've seen in the ER with a bad case of beer muscles who act in precisely the opposite way. They're totally chill with smaller staff, but get aggressive when any of our bigger people walk in.
     
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  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    Yes, if they are rational, they inStead Shout from a distance, but if they are full of beer they will fight anybody. Beer as every one knows makes you more attractive to women and able to fight to a good staNdard:)
     
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  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the point was more along the lines of engineering. Someone could be a very good engineering student, without having any application experience and may not be able to translate theory into application. So, while they are good at "engineering", they are not a good engineer. (For this reason, engineering schools tend to include internship-type work late in the curriculum.)

    And given the range of common definitions of what makes one a "martial artist", I think it's a valid distinction that being a good one (by some definitions) doesn't translate to fighting ability, at all.

    I'd add that there's a whole range of stuff (the part I refer to as "self-protection") that's often not address, or not addressed well, in MA curricula.
     
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd go a bit further. I think there's a common mythology about the reliability of most pressure points. I'm moderately trained in a fair number of them, and can reliably execute them on students in classes...except when I run into that student who doesn't feel one. And that doesn't even account for lower precision under stress, nor the reduced pain response of a hypothetical attacker. And I've seen the idea of pain compliance over-emphasized.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    And that a master (however that term is used) is somehow either invincible or infallible.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    While I agree with much of this, I also think there's a valid reason why most don't get into that other area. I don't think martial arts is the solution to some areas of attack. Someone "gently" coerced (meaning using power and persuasion, rather than force) isn't going to find much prevention in the training from MA, except perhaps through increased confidence and awareness of their own worth (side effects of MA training and other activities).

    Sorry to get into replies, @JowGaWolf - this one's important to dig into a bit. I think aedrasteia's post points out an important myth: that MA training for SD is a panacea, and that it addresses all manner of personal safety. It doesn't in the overwhelming majority of cases, and we should be honest with ourselves (and students) about the limitations of what we're trying to do.
     
  11. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    I agree - pressure points do work nicely, and so does pain compliance.....99% of the time. We have to be prepared for that 1% where hitting a pressure point simply annoys them because they're in a meth rage or whatever.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll actually say I think there are branches of MA where this isn't properly understood by a large number of the proponents.
     
  13. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    This is just going to disappear down a semantically raBbit hole. People can call themselves and what they do anything they want until they run into the law,

    The rest of the world has various expectations as to what things mean, if I order a home mechanic and he can't fix my car as he has no practical experiance, I'm not going to consider him a mechanic, no matter what he calls himself. I had this where one guy turned up, told me what was wrong with the car, fuel injection, a fact I told him on the phone and then wanted a100 quid for the diagnosis, as he didn't have the knowledge to fix it.

    Like wise, if your martial arts are some what light on the martial aspects, selling your services as a martial artist would come close to False advertising, unless you included a rider, " can't fight"
     
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    We use the Japanese term "shizentai", which I think means "normal stance". Why don't we just say "normal stance"? Because "shizentai" sounds MUCH more martial-artsy!
     
  15. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Yeah...when I look back on my late teen to mid twenty years I'm amazed as to how many stupid people showed up every time I enjoyed my share of bourbon.
     
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  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That's what I meant. If someone has a definition of "good martial artist" that doesn't intrinsically include good skills for fighting (and many do), and thinks being a "good martial artist" makes them good at fighting (to say nothing of the non-fighting areas needed for SD/SP), they are in mythland. So, yeah, it's about the semantics, absolutely.
     
  17. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Yes I know some as such but I know far more who understand good fitness is important.
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    If people and quite a lot do, engage in ma for among other things it's fitness benifits, then they will only develop fitness as given by the class, which may not actually be a " good" standard of fitness. Saying they understand it's importance is not the same as actually deliveribg/ developing a " good " standard of fitness
     
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  19. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    The assumption that the same pressure point attack will work on everyone. Muscle makeup simply voids some pressure points.
    Flying Kung Fu and Matrix type guys.
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You're right - there's a difference between what people know/understand, and how they act on that information.

    If you're referring to the classes delivering a good standard of fitness, that's not even really possible for most. Most students attend a couple of classes a week. Even if we spent 30 minutes of those classes on fitness, that would still not be enough to deliver that level for most people (and most students won't be satisfied with a class that is 1/3 to 1/2 not "martial arts"). They have to do it outside class to get there.
     
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