Legal Question...

[charyuop]

Since I go to train 3 times a week I was thinking instead of putting in and out of my car my Bokken and Jo, just leave them in the car. I would take them out only when I train at home or go to dojo.
I live in Oklahoma and don't know where to check this out. Someone knows if I were pulled over for a normal check by police I would be considered carrying a weapon and could get in trouble?
(Not considering that since I work overnight having something to defend myself in the car while going to my car in the dark would be good).

 

[MJS]

Since I go to train 3 times a week I was thinking instead of putting in and out of my car my Bokken and Jo, just leave them in the car. I would take them out only when I train at home or go to dojo.
I live in Oklahoma and don't know where to check this out. Someone knows if I were pulled over for a normal check by police I would be considered carrying a weapon and could get in trouble?
(Not considering that since I work overnight having something to defend myself in the car while going to my car in the dark would be good).

I'd check with your local PD. I would also either leave the weapons at the school, or take them with you each time to train, rather than leaving them in the car. When I go to my Arnis class, I have a few pairs of sticks with me. Sometimes they're in my bag and sometimes I just lay them across the back seat. IMO, it may look better if you can prove that you had just left a MA class, rather than getting pulled over when you were just heading to get gas, go to the store, etc. I'm not an LEO, so who knows, maybe you'd still get in trouble, but like I said, go to and from a class, it may look better.

Mike

 

[Robert Lee]

I would think you could leave them in the trunk of your car. As this is not within reach as an weapon. In the main car it would be considered a weapon. And you might have to prove other in court. I do not think your instructor would think it good to carry the weapons in your car at all times. But trunk will probably be good.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I would think you could leave them in the trunk of your car. As this is not within reach as an weapon. In the main car it would be considered a weapon. And you might have to prove other in court. I do not think your instructor would think it good to carry the weapons in your car at all times. But trunk will probably be good.

Keep your weapons in the trunk but carry an arsenal of personal tools that will do icky things to the human body at hand.
Sean

 

[Drac]

I'd check with your local PD

That is usually the first thing I'd do

I would think you could leave them in the trunk of your car. As this is not within reach as an weapon..

In the trunk is good..If pulled over and you consent to a search you have only to inform the officers that they are in there BEFORE you open the trunk...

 

[Empty Hands]

I find it sad, and revealing, that we all have to worry about whether or not we will be harrassed by law enforcement for having pieces of shaped wood in our cars or on our persons. What has this country come to?

 

[charyuop]

Thank you for your suggestions. I just called the Police Department. The Leutenant I spoke to told me that it is important that I don't conceal them so that it doesn't look like I carry them with me all the time. They don't have to be put in clear sight like the dashboard or seat, but they don't need to be in the trunk. It is enough to put them on the floor behind the driver seat. He said it is better if they are in a bag or holding case.

So I guess that answers my question about leaving them in the car...it is a no hee hee. Better knowing these things before getting in trouble

Would be interesting to make a sticky message where they mention these laws state by state and country by country, where the forum users, after speaking to Law Enforcement Officers, can inform the moderators about the laws.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Here in Hawaii it is illegal to carry those thing in the car. If going to and from training (you may have an accuse.)

Baseball bats in the car? ...Hawaii police department told us : Just make sure you have a ball and glove too! (They know why you are carrying them).

It is when you use them against someone....than you maybe in real trouble with the laws of your state.

Since you have talk to your police department and they told you what you should do? ....Just follow their advise.
=========================================================
To prove self-defense in the courts? ....best to get the best lawyers you can afford. OJ did! ..............Aloha

 

[Carol]

Would be interesting to make a sticky message where they mention these laws state by state and country by country, where the forum users, after speaking to Law Enforcement Officers, can inform the moderators about the laws.

Well...there is a very fine line between discussing potential legal issues and sharing ideas to giving something perceived as legal advice. All it takes is one ambulance-chasing attorney to start giving Bob Hubbard grief about what was said on MartialTalk....and therefore pushing Bob to divert money (a lot of it his own) to legal fees instead of a server upgrade that we desperately need.

A good rule of thumb, policemen can advise you of a good practice...but the opinions of the good folks in blue can vary. In a state like Massachusetts where everything is relative under the law...the opinions of LEOs can vary A LOT.

If you need genuine legal advice, sit down with a defense attorney, especially a defense attorney involved in gun ownership rights or related self-protection issues. If you follow their advice to the letter and things go wrong...it is THEIR butt on the line and not yours. Defense attorneys do more than defend criminals...they also help folks that want to be on the right side of the law STAY on the right side of the law. :asian:

 

[tellner]

What Carol said. Police aren't lawyers. Random people on the Intrawebs really aren't lawyers. If you need legal advice ask a lawyer.

 

[Miles]

Right. Talk to a criminal defense lawyer.

Miles
(an estate planning lawyer)

 

[jks9199]

H'mmm...

I could've sworn I posted a reply. Maybe some internet gremlins ate it or something...

Generally and loosely speaking, without giving specific legal advice or guidance, if the items aren't accessible to you while driving, and you have other indications of martial arts training, and their simple possession is legal in the first place... You'll probably maybe be OK.

Lot's of ifs and maybes, huh?

I'd limit leaving them in the car unless you're going straight to class after work, or something like that. It's just simpler to avoid headaches... And, anyway, a car isn't a great environment for wooden weapons to be stored in!

OH... and just to be clear... If you think maybe you need an attorney, YOU DO. And get the best one you can beg, borrow or steal money to afford, especially if your liberty might be on the line. There's no substitute for a good attorney...

 

[kidswarrior]

Well...there is a very fine line between discussing potential legal issues and sharing ideas to giving something perceived as legal advice. All it takes is one ambulance-chasing attorney to start giving Bob Hubbard grief about what was said on MartialTalk....and therefore pushing Bob to divert money (a lot of it his own) to legal fees instead of a server upgrade that we desperately need.[/qoute]

Very good warning to heed.

A good rule of thumb, policemen can advise you of a good practice...but the opinions of the good folks in blue can vary. In a state like Massachusetts where everything is relative under the law...the opinions of LEOs can vary A LOT.

California, too--even city to city as you drive to and from the studio, work, or the store, and even variance between two officers in the same car--it may depend on something as small as which one gets out to talk to you. A LEO is not an attorney, and no more qualified to give legal advice IMHO than anyone else (unless you're in the middle of it, and LE is hinting at how you might find you're way out, if you just....).

If you need genuine legal advice, sit down with a defense attorney, especially a defense attorney involved in gun ownership rights or related self-protection issues. If you follow their advice to the letter and things go wrong...it is THEIR butt on the line and not yours. Defense attorneys do more than defend criminals...they also help folks that want to be on the right side of the law STAY on the right side of the law. :asian:

Unfortunately, this is also probably necessary.

 

[redfang]

If I stopped someone and they had a bunch of martial arts weapons in the car, first I would take to totality of the circumstances into account. Where am I stopping you? Are there indications that you are using them for martial arts training? Have there been recent assaults or breakins where such might have been used? Etc.

Probably if I pulled someone over with a jo and/or bokken visible in the car, and that person knew what they were and claimed that they were for martial arts, I would probably accept that at face value. If the circumstances were suspicious, I might questtion it. I've seen people robbed with a big stick, why not a jo or any other martial arts weapon? I'd probably ask where you train and test your knowledge a little bit.

 

[lostinseattle]

Check with local laws. You can look them up online and when in doubt, just call your local police department (the number listed in the phone book -- not 911).

In most states it's not illegal to carry martial arts practice weapons from home to dojo with one notable exception that I've come across which is California, nunchaku are totally illegal no matter what. (Even the foam padded kind evidently).

And please note I'm talking about PRACTICE weapons -- your jo and bokken are practice weapons. I highly doubt you're going to get in any trouble for those. A live sword would be another story entirely and could get you shot literally. Some guy in Seattle a while back was shot for carrying a live sword and refusing to put it down.

 

[jks9199]

Check with local laws. You can look them up online and when in doubt, just call your local police department (the number listed in the phone book -- not 911).

In most states it's not illegal to carry martial arts practice weapons from home to dojo with one notable exception that I've come across which is California, nunchaku are totally illegal no matter what. (Even the foam padded kind evidently).

And please note I'm talking about PRACTICE weapons -- your jo and bokken are practice weapons. I highly doubt you're going to get in any trouble for those. A live sword would be another story entirely and could get you shot literally. Some guy in Seattle a while back was shot for carrying a live sword and refusing to put it down.

You skipped a large and significant step when you moved from "having a live sword in the car" to "shot for carrying a live sword and refusing to put it down."

I stop someone, and they've got a katana, kukri, or some other "martial arts weapon" in the back seat... We're gonna chat. That's a fact of life. I'm also probably (like almost certainly) going to have them step out of the car, just to keep it out of their reach while I sort out what's going on. If it's in the trunk of their car, not immediately accessible... That's a different question. If I'm searching your car -- warn me (I hate surprises of the large, sharp, or deadly kind... and a katana is all 3!) about it. But if your attitude is reasonable, and the tale behind the weapons is logical... You'll be fine.

You start waving around any of those items, or a wooden bo or jo or bokken (which can get you just as dead as the "real" thing) or baseball bat or hockey stick , or anything else of like kind, and refuse my commands to drop it (or even lay it down gently; I'm not completely unreasonable!)... Well, that's going to end very differently. At a minimum... expect to ride the lightning if I've got a Taser available. If I don't... You'll stand a real good chance of getting dead. But that's a far cry from simply having it in your car...

 

[charyuop]

Wow, we went from a question about carrying a jo/bokken in the car to shooting someone...
I think when you carry a weapon in your car, you have to follow some rules of common sense, which I would sum up like this, then here LEO can confirm or correct me:
1_ You are pulled over you hand over your ID and proof of insurance as usual, no need to say "oh officer I got a weapon here with me", which to me if I was a LEO would sound suspect;
2_ If the weapon is visible from the outside, which in my opinion if it is legal to carry would be the best option, the LEO will probably ask you to step out and ask about the weapon...so just step out;
3_ Don't even think about touching the weapon. Let the LEO pull the weapon out of the car and handle it;
4_ If the LEO instead of putting the weapon in the car hands it over to you just reaceive the weapon (don't grab it from his hands, I would even handle it with 2 fingers instead of closing the whole hand around it) and without sudden movement place the weapon back in the car, paying attention never to have your hands disappear from the LEO sight or pointing the weapon towards the LEO (even tho in most Martial Art an attack with the weapon almost never starts with the weapon pointed at the opponent).

I think following just a common sense guide line will prevent from any kind of trouble for you and the LEO.

 

[Blindside]

In the early 90s there was a guy up in Capitol Hill in Seattle who would walk around with a short broadsword (or a longish shortsword) strapped vertically down his back. Apparently he got away with this by constantly telling concerned cops that "he was on a way to a martial arts lesson." He did this for years....

Lamont

 

[lostinseattle]

In the early 90s there was a guy up in Capitol Hill in Seattle who would walk around with a short broadsword (or a longish shortsword) strapped vertically down his back. Apparently he got away with this by constantly telling concerned cops that "he was on a way to a martial arts lesson." He did this for years....

Lamont

Supposedly in China this is very common and people take practice swords around on buses and public transit all the time with no problems. Guns, however, are totally outlawed and another story entirely.

The guy that got shot I think pulled the sword out and wouldn't put it away, so they shot him. It sounds like suicide by cop.

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour...=sword12m&date=20020912&query="Shawn+Maxwell"

There's one reference on the web to Washington State laws and there's a section in there that you can have throwing stars and nunchaku as long as you're in an MA class. Not sure if it's accurate, though since it's not a Gov site. If they're allowed in class, then there must be some way to get them to/from class.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/wa.txt

Personally I never carry any real MA weapons in the car. If some cop wants to give me a hard time about a wooden bokken or jo or something in the car, which isn't any more dangerous than a shovel or a sledgehammer or something which are commonly carried by construction workers, that's their perogative. It will be fun suing them later.

 

[lostinseattle]

I stop someone, and they've got a katana, kukri, or some other "martial arts weapon" in the back seat... We're gonna chat. That's a fact of life. I'm also probably (like almost certainly) going to have them step out of the car, just to keep it out of their reach while I sort out what's going on. If it's in the trunk of their car, not immediately accessible... That's a different question. If I'm searching your car -- warn me (I hate surprises of the large, sharp, or deadly kind... and a katana is all 3!) about it. But if your attitude is reasonable, and the tale behind the weapons is logical... You'll be fine.

Yeah a cousin of mine likes driving these old junker cars and also likes carrying a big Bowie knife in a sheath under his front seat. He has lots of stories about getting stopped in the outback of Montana and Wyoming and Idaho and other states and warning the cop about the Bowie knife under the seat while they're searching around for pot/meth and other drugs. LOL

He says they always do the same thing ... pull out the Bowie knife, put it on the front seat, rifle around the car, and then hand it back to him when they're done.