Twin Fist
Grandmaster
this gives me a chuckle, i approve
Kug Maky Ung Ryu Ninjitsu
- Thread starter emiliozapata
- Start date
Cirdan
Senior Master
Why the hell would anyone mix their military training with kickboxing and various grappling to form their own "family tradition", and then call it NINJUTSU??? 
Gee, I think I will mix my six months training in kenjutsu with agnostic beliefs and form a new order of the Knights Templar!
Gee, I think I will mix my six months training in kenjutsu with agnostic beliefs and form a new order of the Knights Templar!
I'm in. Damn, this resume is starting to look good:
Founder of Gracie Jujutsu
Founder of Tracy Kenpo
Pauvres Chevalier du Temple
Head Instructor for the US Military Academy, West Point
Head Instructor for the NY State Police Special Tactics Unit
:uhyeah:
I'll stick to being the Soke of Kungate. Long flowery resumes indicate a lack of dedication to your core. You all keep breaking the boards, I'll stick to breaking like the wind!
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
Now hold on just a minute everyone and take a step back.
Let us ask the question "what defines ninjutsu?"
I believe that any Japanese warrior tradition that incorporates stealth, espionage, sabotage, and other covert actions could be considered "ninjutsu".
Some ryu may have been specifically created for such things like togakure ryu, where it is possible that specific ninja clans emerged that specialized in these particular skills. Other samurai arts would likely include similar training just not to the same extent.
Therefore I would like to argue that ninjutsu is just like any other japanese bujutsu system with a special emphasis on the skills listed above.
However, I do not think that any warrior system in the world could call itself ninjutsu soley because they have similar practices. Since ninjutsu is a japanese word I argue that in order to call a system ninjutsu it must be japanese or trace itself through japanese origins.
"Kug Maky Ung Ryu Ninjitsu" does not fit my criteria (though I am hardly an expert on the matter) to be called a ninjutsu system even if many of the practices are similar, simply because it is not Japanese.
IMO (and remember it is an opinion), a person could study a jujutsu system from japan, and then add in stealth manuevers and other "ninja like" methods he could have learned as a Green Beret or whatever other elite spec ops groups but could not call his art a ninjutsu system because the techniques that would be considered "ninja-like" are not from a japanese art.
I hope I am making sense to you out there, I find it very hard sometimes to take what I think and put it into words.I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Let us ask the question "what defines ninjutsu?"
I believe that any Japanese warrior tradition that incorporates stealth, espionage, sabotage, and other covert actions could be considered "ninjutsu".
Some ryu may have been specifically created for such things like togakure ryu, where it is possible that specific ninja clans emerged that specialized in these particular skills. Other samurai arts would likely include similar training just not to the same extent.
Therefore I would like to argue that ninjutsu is just like any other japanese bujutsu system with a special emphasis on the skills listed above.
However, I do not think that any warrior system in the world could call itself ninjutsu soley because they have similar practices. Since ninjutsu is a japanese word I argue that in order to call a system ninjutsu it must be japanese or trace itself through japanese origins.
"Kug Maky Ung Ryu Ninjitsu" does not fit my criteria (though I am hardly an expert on the matter) to be called a ninjutsu system even if many of the practices are similar, simply because it is not Japanese.
IMO (and remember it is an opinion), a person could study a jujutsu system from japan, and then add in stealth manuevers and other "ninja like" methods he could have learned as a Green Beret or whatever other elite spec ops groups but could not call his art a ninjutsu system because the techniques that would be considered "ninja-like" are not from a japanese art.
I hope I am making sense to you out there, I find it very hard sometimes to take what I think and put it into words.I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
CDKJudoka
Purple Belt
Maybe he thought that if Ahida Kim could do it, so could he.
The problem here is simple. Marketing.
Something foreign sounding is cool. Adding in ninja, is cooler still.
There is no need for a fancy faux foreign name if one isn't going to sell it anywhere.
If I listed how many arts I've picked a tech up from, it would be a long list. The only art however that I ever considered myself qualified to teach was Arnis, and only at a beginner level. Found my own art? Naw.
Sure, I can graft in some of the kenpo I know, mix it into my arnis, add a smattering of kung fu, wing chun, iaido, kenjutsu, bujikan, etc etc etc. But that misses something, something that's too often missing in these "new" arts.
Balance, experience, and depth of the knowledge base.
Sure, I can send in a video and $300-500 to some HOF or "soke family" board and get myself recognized.
But the lack is still there.
The traditional arts, even the true new ones, are based on time honored, tried and true techniques and ideas, usually "debugged" by hundreds of hours of experimentation. Not one guy or 2-3 guysdoing random mix-n-matchin. The MMA guys drop alot of the old stuff, alot of the traditions, and go for a smaller more focused block of techs, but in their own way they still do their katas, their techniques, etc. They might not wear angry asian pjs, but work out gear from today in 200 years will look funny too.
But all that is in developing an art. Naming it, thats not needed unless you have someone to 'sell' it to.
Why would I name it something, in a language I don't know?
Sure, toro kaze ryu sounds cool. So does tiger wind style. But when it's just me, it's just Bobs personal way of doing things.
Dont need more than that, unless I want to market it.
Then, you need a cool sounding name. And some wall paper, and a belt with lots of stripes and foriegn letters.
Something foreign sounding is cool. Adding in ninja, is cooler still.
There is no need for a fancy faux foreign name if one isn't going to sell it anywhere.
If I listed how many arts I've picked a tech up from, it would be a long list. The only art however that I ever considered myself qualified to teach was Arnis, and only at a beginner level. Found my own art? Naw.
Sure, I can graft in some of the kenpo I know, mix it into my arnis, add a smattering of kung fu, wing chun, iaido, kenjutsu, bujikan, etc etc etc. But that misses something, something that's too often missing in these "new" arts.
Balance, experience, and depth of the knowledge base.
Sure, I can send in a video and $300-500 to some HOF or "soke family" board and get myself recognized.
But the lack is still there.
The traditional arts, even the true new ones, are based on time honored, tried and true techniques and ideas, usually "debugged" by hundreds of hours of experimentation. Not one guy or 2-3 guysdoing random mix-n-matchin. The MMA guys drop alot of the old stuff, alot of the traditions, and go for a smaller more focused block of techs, but in their own way they still do their katas, their techniques, etc. They might not wear angry asian pjs, but work out gear from today in 200 years will look funny too.
But all that is in developing an art. Naming it, thats not needed unless you have someone to 'sell' it to.
Why would I name it something, in a language I don't know?
Sure, toro kaze ryu sounds cool. So does tiger wind style. But when it's just me, it's just Bobs personal way of doing things.
Dont need more than that, unless I want to market it.
Then, you need a cool sounding name. And some wall paper, and a belt with lots of stripes and foriegn letters.
Very well put. I think it sums up the whole modern "make up your own style" thing completely.
artyon:
OP
emiliozapata
Green Belt
- Joined
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- #49
Earlier I had stated that I was done posting on this topic. The last post was so far off base that I must respond. First off, Kug Maky Ung as a name is not of any Asian language origin, as you all keep insinuating. I made that up as a child when I was trying to create my own martial art.
When I wanted to train some stuff with my two sons I knew I needed a way to grab and hold their interest. They love Hanzo Hittori from playing Dynasty Warriors so I knew they would be game if I called it Ninjitsu. Not wanting to be deceptive and call it just ninjitsu , which would connotate a generic style= bujinkan, I chose to bring the name from my childhood and call it Kug Maky Ung Ryu Ninjitsu.
Stealth tactics of Japanese origin? Are you kidding? Ultimately all human endeavor has African origins so you may as well quit calling your "authentic Ninjutsu" ninjutsu since everything contained in it is predated from a different continent.
Again, most of the posters need to practice a bit more humility. If you as a collective are true representatives of the persona yielded by training in your true ryu's , then I guess I am glad I am not involved.
I will continue to train in and develop Kug Maky Ung Ryu and enjoy it. My beliefs about what constitutes ninjitsu are completely in line with me calling what I am doing ninjitsu.
When I wanted to train some stuff with my two sons I knew I needed a way to grab and hold their interest. They love Hanzo Hittori from playing Dynasty Warriors so I knew they would be game if I called it Ninjitsu. Not wanting to be deceptive and call it just ninjitsu , which would connotate a generic style= bujinkan, I chose to bring the name from my childhood and call it Kug Maky Ung Ryu Ninjitsu.
Stealth tactics of Japanese origin? Are you kidding? Ultimately all human endeavor has African origins so you may as well quit calling your "authentic Ninjutsu" ninjutsu since everything contained in it is predated from a different continent.
Again, most of the posters need to practice a bit more humility. If you as a collective are true representatives of the persona yielded by training in your true ryu's , then I guess I am glad I am not involved.
I will continue to train in and develop Kug Maky Ung Ryu and enjoy it. My beliefs about what constitutes ninjitsu are completely in line with me calling what I am doing ninjitsu.
Okay. Just so long as you know that you will never gain world-wide acceptance of the usage of that term. If you made up your own martial art, then call it a martial art, but to borrow a term that accurately describes something quite specific and separate from other art forms, that has been cultivated, preserved and passed down in a protective fashion is just juvenile in the eyes of most martial artists.
Good luck in your endeavors and I hope, in the spirit of learning, that you open your mind to the bigger world around you and do some research.
Unfortunately, they're not in line with reality. Several people have tried to point out that you can't just mash stuff together and call it ninjutsu, and the fact that you're admittedly combining that with a made-up name from your childhood makes it even sillier.
Here is a thought...what about checking out the following:
www.winjutsu.com
www.jinenkan.com
www.genbukan.org
Even if it required driving an hour, at least you would be getting quality instruction. Out of the links that I posted, are you telling me that there're no schools in your area?
I haven't really been following this thread so perhaps this next question was already asked, but what is your training background? Have you or are you currently training in a martial art? IMHO, I think it would be much better to train in something legit, than to make something up, with nothing to back it up.
I train in Kenpo, BJJ and Arnis. Sure, during a Kenpo class I may teach a lock from Arnis or a defense from the mount from BJJ. BUT...I make it clear that I am teaching something outside of Kenpo. I make sure that everyone knows it is Arnis or BJJ. I don't try to bluff them into thinking that this lock flow came from Kenpo, when it didn't. And I also don't blend all 3 styles together to call it some made up name.
This is IMHO the #1 problem with the arts today...way too many people out there trying to BS others.
www.winjutsu.com
www.jinenkan.com
www.genbukan.org
Even if it required driving an hour, at least you would be getting quality instruction. Out of the links that I posted, are you telling me that there're no schools in your area?
I haven't really been following this thread so perhaps this next question was already asked, but what is your training background? Have you or are you currently training in a martial art? IMHO, I think it would be much better to train in something legit, than to make something up, with nothing to back it up.
I train in Kenpo, BJJ and Arnis. Sure, during a Kenpo class I may teach a lock from Arnis or a defense from the mount from BJJ. BUT...I make it clear that I am teaching something outside of Kenpo. I make sure that everyone knows it is Arnis or BJJ. I don't try to bluff them into thinking that this lock flow came from Kenpo, when it didn't. And I also don't blend all 3 styles together to call it some made up name.
This is IMHO the #1 problem with the arts today...way too many people out there trying to BS others.
I'm very humble, or so I'm told. I'm also very arrogant, or so I'm told.
Either way, while I wish you the best of luck in your journey and applaud your desire to create something to pass down to your children, I find it wrong to take a beginners tool box, add a fancy sounding name, and try to pass it off as something it isn't.
Most of those posting on this have real training in legit arts, not ones that are 'new' or 'sound cool'. This site, and most others, take dim views of "mix n matchers". Post your story on one site in particular, and you'll find a much harsher reception. There, they wouldn't hesitate to call you a fraud, a faker, and much much worse.
Again, I wish you well, but I don't see your art as a legitimate ninja art.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
so...what exactly does this name mean? Is it just childhood gobbley-gook that doesn't mean anything at all? Do these "words" come from anywhere? are they actual words in ANY language at all?
MarkBarlow
Purple Belt
If you are creating something for you and your kids to play at, more power to you. If you're trying to establish a legitimate connection to any existing or previously existing martial art I think you're off-base and bordering on self-delusional.
Please remember, you brought this to the attention of the world at large. Nobody kicked your door in and demanded to know what you were doing in your spare time. If you choose to announce the development of a new style, don't be surprised if someone has questions. If your answers seem nonsensical, don't be surprised if someone points out the inconsistencies.
Regardless, have fun with your kids and good luck. Sadly enough, there are lots of systems out there with even less validity than Kug Maky Ung.
Please remember, you brought this to the attention of the world at large. Nobody kicked your door in and demanded to know what you were doing in your spare time. If you choose to announce the development of a new style, don't be surprised if someone has questions. If your answers seem nonsensical, don't be surprised if someone points out the inconsistencies.
Regardless, have fun with your kids and good luck. Sadly enough, there are lots of systems out there with even less validity than Kug Maky Ung.
A resounding "plus one" to Mr Barlow's last above. With that, I think we should let this gracefully pass beyond our ken (hmmm, sounds like there could be a pun there somewhere for an art that may include bladed weapons ).
).
It sounds like something a Klingon would say ... only ... not.
JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
Huh I honestly thought it was some sort of Korean wording.
Interesting note you had a desire to create an art as a child.
Well if they have an interest in Hanzo Hattori the Hattori clan is very interesting so the first place might be learning about Japanese culture and history.
A good amount of modern Japanese do not really share the same idealism about Samurai and Ninja as we do in the west. I think any child would love to play Ninja,Cowboy or Pirate afterall its what children do. The Bujinkan I don't know if it fits as a style but an organization with certain ryu-ha that have historical linerage in Ninjutsu as well as other styles that may be Koryu in origin. As adults and martial artists you can expect some criticism and skepticism on a newly formed Ninjutsu school. Those who trained in Japan and so had to deal with many made-up schools of Ninjutsu and even those whos FATHER CREATED THEIR OWN STYLE handing it to them only to have their sons look foolish to the martial art world.
The Japanese tactics of stealth may have origin from say China but there are charastics that make it very Japanese. The thing that really stands out is the word or Kanji Ninjutsu.
IMO the word Ninjutsu is Japanese origin I don't think it is founded in Chinese and if it is I think the word is different.
Maybe you are right to a degree. On the flip side how else are people suppose to take a guy who with no legit Japanese credentials in Ninjutsu? Those who practice this art how are they suppose to accept it as?
Well nothing anyone can do to stop you really...But expect alot of questioning,ridicule,skepticism,criticism concerning it.
OP
emiliozapata
Green Belt
- Joined
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- #60
Kug Maky Ung, loosely translates to mean "The warrior spirit within me". It comes from no known language. I just created as a child to reflect that the system I was creating emphasized mastery over one's mind and emotions and that cultivating a personal philosophy of warriorship.
As far as a Japanese origin to my system, my main formal training is in judo and BJJ , both of which have Japanese origins. My self training in ninjitsu comes from hatsumi and hayes materials primarily. I firmly belief in self training though, and even when doing randori , I always customized techniques and created my own style that worked best for me, based on a technique "feeling" right. These have always worked best for me and led me to believe that self discovery of technique based on intuition is best.
it is this principle that i am using to guide my kug maky ung creation.
as far as ridicule, or lack of acceptance from this forum, i originally came here and posted this to share in my excitement, never dreamed i would be so harshly rebuked.
As far as a Japanese origin to my system, my main formal training is in judo and BJJ , both of which have Japanese origins. My self training in ninjitsu comes from hatsumi and hayes materials primarily. I firmly belief in self training though, and even when doing randori , I always customized techniques and created my own style that worked best for me, based on a technique "feeling" right. These have always worked best for me and led me to believe that self discovery of technique based on intuition is best.
it is this principle that i am using to guide my kug maky ung creation.
as far as ridicule, or lack of acceptance from this forum, i originally came here and posted this to share in my excitement, never dreamed i would be so harshly rebuked.
