Kong Soo Do's Rank

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Kong Soo Do, May 8, 2012.

  1. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    NW Alaska
    I found it interesting that in Tiwan non of them test and ask for KKW rank beyond 1st Dan just enough to qualify for WTF competion rules after that it is all thier own KwanJang certifications. They do not wish to support KKW financially I would like to know if Ernie Reyes Senior with his own Kwan West Coast Kwan only uses his own certification for students? or has a dual promotion method ?
     
  2. Archtkd

    Archtkd 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I'm not familiar with what you are saying. I've personally not met any Kukkiwon certified taekwondo master instructor who has recommended someone who they have not trained or physically tested (in taekwondo) for Kukkiwon certification, especially at the master level (4th Dan and up). I'm not saying it never happens, but I've never seen it myself, and do not endorse it. I can see how this type of belt promotion might be applied in efforts to complete Kukkiwon taekwondo kwan unification and get more people involved in WTF competition, but I don't understand why you, an independent operator, would pursue that path.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    2,767
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Even if 99 people out of 100 prefer chocolate, it's still an opinion. There is no such thing as "fact in the majority." That's nonsense.
    Really? How do you know this? Tell me more about myself... about how young and inexperienced I am.
    I have never said that it was common or uncommon. What I did say is that you can pair just about anything and that healing is an adjunct to martial arts training (just as martial arts would be an adjunct to healing arts.) Chocolate and Peanut Butter. Healing arts and Martial Arts. Beer and Peanuts. Associating two things doesn't make them the same. While I might enjoy a cigar with a nice glass of single malt scotch, I can smoke the cigar without the scotch or drink the scotch without smoking a cigar.

    Look, you can choose to be patronizing and condescending. That's up to you. But I'd recommend getting a handle on the difference between an opinion and a fact and then re-read your last couple of posts.

    “The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd.” - Bertrand Russell
     
  4. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,052
    Likes Received:
    3,759
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    I think the key here is the highlighted phrase. While you may not have personally met (or have met without knowing the details of their ranking?) such a person, they certainly exist. KKW materials posted here in the past, as well as comments from individuals holding high Dan ranks make it clear that the KKW has long endorsed "assimilation" ranking; the granting of KKW rank to those holding equivelant rank in other TKD systems.
     
  5. Archtkd

    Archtkd 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I say that in my post: "I can see how this type of belt promotion might be applied in efforts to complete Kukkiwon taekwondo kwan unification and get more people involved in WTF competition, but I don't understand why you, an independent operator, would pursue that path."
     
  6. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    328
    Trophy Points:
    143
    I don't think we're on the same sheet of music at the moment. Let me see if I can explain better by using a comparison. Forgive me that I don't remember your rank, let me use 4th Dan since that number is in your quote above to serve as an example. You test under your instructor for 4th Dan, pass the test and perhaps get a Kwan or Dojang cert. Since you and your instructor both belong to the KKW (I don't know if you do, just an example), you pay the appropriate fee and your rank is now recognized by the KKW. A representative of the KKW may or may not have been present (as far as from KKW admin in Korea). Thus you are now a KKW 4th Dan.

    Okay, my instructor was a member of the WIF. I tested under my instructor for all my TKD rank. He recommended becoming a part of the WIF, as he had done. In effect, the WIF would be our organization in the same capacity that the KKW would serve another. Just as your KKW instructor vouched for your being a certain level by a Kwan or perhaps Dojang cert, mine did the same. This, in addition to all of my other training history was sent to the WIF HQ. GM Davies, after reviewing my credentials and the rank my own instructor had promoted me to, choose to skip my rank upwards. As GM Davies is a well known, well respected martial artist, I would humbly submit that this positively reflects upon my training history. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I soon after requested do be downgraded. Again, I would suggest this positively reflects upon me as well. I mean, who asks to have their rank reduced by petitioning the president of the organization. I did so respectfully and offered my justification for not skipping my rank upward. He accepted my request. Bottom line, I was happy with being, I think 5th, at the time and didn't want a skip upwards.

    Bottom line, GM Davies did not test me, he relied upon the word of my instructor (my training history that was sent was just extra in my opinion). Just as the president of the KKW would not have tested you personally, he relied upon the word of your instructor that you were what he stated.

    I hope this is a bit clearer?
     
  7. Archtkd

    Archtkd 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Understand I'm not questioning your qualifications, especially in martial arts and combat systems that I know nothing about. It's your process and motive of certification that I am curios about. In general you've been very critical of the Kukkiwon and a perceived way that taekwondo organizations certify and rank dan holders. I don't see how your way of doing things is any better. Why do you do it that way, especially given that you've implied that dan rankings mean nothing?

    I have never had a kwan or dojang certificate. It's in fact a violation of Kukkiwon regulations for any Kukkiwon certified dan holder to issue dan certificates in their name, dojang or organization. I'm not saying it's not done, but anybody doing it is violating Kukkiwon rules -- rules that are now being looked at more closely as different Kukki taekwondo organizations and grandmasters sign memorandums of understanding with the Kukkiwon.

    The way that I've always been certified, right up to my 5th dan this February is as follows. I train with a Kukkiwon certified teacher for a long time. That teacher tests me when he thinks I am ready -- in the presence of a panel of other senior dans and taekwondoin. If I pass the test, said teacher recommends me for Kukkiwon certification. Note I've also never practiced any other martial art in which I've sought ranking, besides Kukki taekwondo.
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

kong soo do