Knife Attack (graphic)

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Hawke, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Hawke

    Hawke Master Black Belt

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    Knife Attack
    [ll]f3b_1286227189[/ll]


    The guy with his back to the doorway gets cut.

    The clerk has a gun nearby.

    Assuming everything is in real time this act of violence happens in seconds.

    Are you a good witness?

    Can you describe the perpetrator?

    How many people were involved?

    How many shots were fired?

    These are just a few ideas to think about.

    There are many times I am unaware of my environment (studying in the library, grocery shopping, the church parking lot, etc). I also do not carry a weapon on me all the time and may take 10 seconds or more to get an improvised weapon ready (which is way too late).
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  2. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    OMG!! :eek:

    Don't have anything else to add other than...wow...
     
  3. Jack Meower

    Jack Meower Blue Belt

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    Honestly, that seems almost slow to me, except for the first guy. He had no chance at all. Of course if I were actually there, it would probably seem much, much faster.
     
  4. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

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    Describing the perp... the dead guy on the floor with the orange shirt 3 people involved 3 shots fired did I win? It did happen really fast to be sure and the clerk did a remarkably good job staying (relatively) calm in spite of the shock of the attack and being cut in the head with a knife. He was IMO a bit reckless in firing his weapon nearly hitting the other guy but he popped a couple more to be sure. The video definitely clears him and screams self-defense all the way.
     
  5. BloodMoney

    BloodMoney Green Belt

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    One thing I notice is how nobody ever cheap shots the badguy in these videos! The guy is just trying to physically restrain him from stabbing the shopkeeper, literally trying to just stop him by grabbing the knife. Tsk tsk...then guess what happens, guy turns on him. Who woulda thought? Crazed knife wielding murderer objects to you removing his knife mid-murder. Personally I would be grabbing something big and heavy and hitting the attacker on the head with it from behind while he is attacking someone else...or cheap shot him in some way at least. This video just illustrates theres no time for honorable 'gently gently' when lives are on the line.

    Something about that tells me it wasnt robbery, but more likely revenge or something. You dont start out a robbery by slitting the nearest person to the doors throat (that **** was cold!) and then just mindlessly stabbing the shopkeeper...I wonder what country thats from, cause I dont see many crims in the west behaving like that, just shooting the guy at the door dead for example, seemed a bit weird...

    I thought the shopkeeper acted pretty fast...if he had of hesitated the guy that was being stabbed woulda been dead, so he did pretty well to get his handgun out and deliver a (seemingly) lethal shot so fast.
     
  6. DarkShadowfax

    DarkShadowfax Yellow Belt

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    Oh freakin god. That was so fast O_O. Just.. Wow.
    3-4 people involved, am I right? Store clerk, orange dead guy, slit throat and the other who tried to remove the knife only to get stabbed afterwards.
    Had I been there in real life then I wouldn't be able to remember anything at all, it would've only been a blur to me.
    The store clerk did a pretty job at remaining calm though.
     
  7. Hawke

    Hawke Master Black Belt

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    [yt]BEjKU0p9JZw[/yt]

    If this happened in your neighborhood what would you do as a bystander?

    I would get out and find a safe place to call the cops. Another reason why we need to know where all the exits are located.
     
  8. Disco

    Disco Green Belt

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    Both videos show that, YOU MUST STOP the attacker. It also shows that those that attack are not the dubious trained knife fighters that many want to associate a major training regime for. In the second video, it took quite a while for internal help to arrive, but they finally did. I know the stool did some damage, but the attacker was still able to move and attempt to leave. I had to laugh at the guy outside who was just waiting for the attacker to exit and he delivered a nice kick, better late than never I guess.

    Bottom line from watching these videos is that you must do something to the attacker to disable him. Go for the throat, eyes, groin or legs (break the ankle or knee). This attacker took some real punishment when the troops arrived, but he was still fairly functional. It was lucky that he apparently lost the knife and could not attempt to attack the guy with the stick who was hitting him. This just reinforced the mandate that you have to seriously hurt the attacker in order to stop him and that means anything goes............
     
  9. d1jinx

    d1jinx Master Black Belt

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    Speaking from experience, its hard to say how anyone would react.

    The first couple of seconds you are thinking to yourself, this AINT happening.... and are in dis-belief.

    But those few seconds can cost you your life.
     
  10. Hudson69

    Hudson69 Brown Belt

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    A good reason to try and never allow your alertness level drop below orange; if possible...
     
  11. Gaius Julius Caesar

    Gaius Julius Caesar Black Belt

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    Kill him.

    If I could get behind him, if carring my pistol I'd shot him in the back and then back of head. If I had a knife, Id reacharound and grab his head as I stomped the back of his knee and stabbed him in the kdney and then twisted head to the left and put the blade in his neck.

    If unarmed, Id break his windpipe and traction his neck.

    He was attemping murder, screw controlling him, kill him while he is in commission of the assult, of coarse if you hurt him and he drops and is no longer a threat, you can't Coup de grace him, allthough you should be able to.

    An innocent person was being attacked and you as a martial artist would run off to call some cops? C'mon the victum could be dead and the perp miles away before 5.0 gets there. Thin line between safty, self preservation and being a coward.
     
  12. Bruno@MT

    Bruno@MT Senior Master

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    Unless you've been there before, you won't know what you'd do.

    That really depends. But going unarmed against a knife fighter voluntarily is stupid. And it also depends on the context of the situation. If my daughters are with me, my first concern would be their safety and getting them as far away from the threat as possible. Everything else, including your safety is secondary.

    Btw, just because something is cowardly does not mean that it is always the wrong decision. If the other guy is already dead or dying, there is no point in taking on the killer. If you can still make a difference, there is a reason to intervene. If you can't, then the risk of adding your own corpse to the crime scene is maybe not worth it.
     
  13. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Master of Arts

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    In the first video I'll say the guy behind the counter, once he saw the other guy get his throat cut should have grabbed the chair and used it as a shield (if not get the gun.)

    Thing about self defense is many people just cannot believe their eyes when they see something like this happen in front of them. For several seconds their OODA look is still trying to gather data and find something that matches it in their mind. But since they have never seen violence it sort of hesitates to confirm it really is a violent act that must be stopped.

    And guys, a gun in a IWB is better than one below a counter.

    In the second video, notice no one ever even throws a punch to try to knock the guy out, or grab a bottle and hit him with it. No karate kicks either.

    In reality, most people cannot fight well and don't train.

    Deaf
     
  14. BloodMoney

    BloodMoney Green Belt

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    Yeah...that.

    But, as has been said, easier said then done when your actually in a situation like that. I thought he reacted fairly well, but to react damn well would have been to do the above. Personally, if I had a handgun under the counter, it would be there specifically for the day a psycho starts slitting the throats of my customers and I would have it out in a jiffy and be double tappin' said psycho in his center mass.
     
  15. Bruno@MT

    Bruno@MT Senior Master

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    True.
    If you have a gun there, you should practice with it regularly. After closing time for example. Perhaps even have 'live' training with some friends. Otherwise, if something happens you'll have to start fumbling and thinking of what to do. Both are not things you want to do when full of adrenalin.
     
  16. Haze

    Haze Blue Belt

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    Can you describe the perpetrator? orange shirt, got shot

    How many people were involved? 4 counting the perp

    How many shots were fired? one shot fired
     
  17. BloodMoney

    BloodMoney Green Belt

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    Absolutely agreed. Maybe hes from a quite violent country (does look like the Middle East?) and hes quite casual about gun ownership or something, but personally I would be acutely aware of the loaded semi automatic killing machine I kept near me at all times during my work hours.
     
  18. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

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    I had the fortune of training with Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny a couple weeks back in Bloomington, IL., and one point he made clear was that the DBMA system begins by dealing with primal realities first........and the knife/counter-knife material fit in perfectly with the kind of attacks seen in both videos.

    The same point has been made by Tim Rivera in the Garimot Arnis instruction i've gotten.........deal with primal realities first........a knife attack isn't a ballet, with smooth, flowing motions, it's football and wrestling with a blade, with bodies slamming together, and a lot of yelling and screaming.
     
  19. altc

    altc White Belt

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    I agree that was quick. Imagine sitting there as the shop teller, owner or whatever. Just another night. Wondering what he would be watching on TV when he got home. How long til knock off...

    One thing I will say is that he did remarkably well with getting a first round hit under strees in a real surprise encounter. That is good combat shooting. Lucky the other guy was not hit.123
     

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