Just wondering.

[TKDTony2179]

Just adding some peaceful thoughts...We all pretty much agree the Chang Heon Patterns (Hyung, Tul, Poomse) were formalized within the Oh Do Kwan. We also know Gen. Choi, and Col. Nam were training soldiers in Tang Soo Do prior to the initial finalization. The first finalization appeared in text to include 20 Hyung and Shorin- Shorei Kata (reference "Taekwon-Do, the Art of Self-Defence", Daeha Publication Company 1968, pg 216-pg 239).General Choi also changed things along the way. In addition to adding and removing "hyong" (word later changed to tul) he altered his preference for individual motions. This took place until when, probably the mid-late 80's. By then many of the original masters of Taekwon-Do had gone their own way including GGM Nam, Tae-Hi. Certainly, we can argue semantics, but I believe it is crazy to say that GGM Nam is doing anything incorrectly. GM Park, Jung Soo is another example or the variety in the generations of Chang Heon Taekwon-Do.I am glad that I have moved away from my previous elitist disposition, and become more accepting and rational concerning my thoughts. For decades there has been the argument between Kukki & Chang Heon TKD, now we have expanded to include arguments between Chang Heon Taekwondo and I.T.F. Taekwondo.Is it fare to say that all I.T.F. Taekwon-Do is Chang Heon, but not all Chang Heon Taekwondo is I.T.F.I believe these nuances are barriers serving to separate us rather than unite us....was UNITY not the General's intent?

Spooky I do believe you are right. Chang hon patterns may have been started with a few people and if the Choi changed and added sinewave but others didn't dont mean they are wrong. Just a lil different. Understanding the differences and understanding the application is important. But respect is as well as important.

 

[RTKDCMB]

For thrust and pierce. As used in the Chang Hon system...

The side piercing kick uses the same rotation as the punch for the purpose of causing internal hemorrhage.

The term thrust is used as part of the name of various techniques Fingertip (Flat, Straight, Twin, Upset) elbow, and others denoting it's method of execution and application.

Hope this is clear. feel free to diagree.

Both the side piercing and side thrusting kicks are technically thrusts which is any linear motion perpendicular to the surface of the target. In any case this is approximately the sidekick (Yop chagi) we are taught in RTKD (which uses the Chang Hon system).

We only kick with the heel unless it is to the legs, never with the ball of the foot. Thank you for clearing the side piercing/thrusting thing up for me.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Interesting. The Chang Hon system specs the footsword. (I believe Shotokan uses the sam part of the foot.) Not the heel / Back Sole.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Choi changed and added sinewave but others didn't .

FWIW the flexing of the knee wa referred to in the 1965 and 1972 Book. In practice we referred to it as "Spring Style" In the Encyclopedia whcih I believe was first published in 1982 it was referred to metaphoricaly as "Sine Wave" . Still the text which had a whole 1 or 2 pages of explanation out of 15 volumes still did not adequately explain it as was taught in person. While I noted the execution remained unchanged from the 1990 course to the 1994 course the explanation was modified.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Both the side piercing and side thrusting kicks are technically thrusts which is any linear motion perpendicular to the surface of the target..

I am not sure what you mean by "technicaly" and herein lies a semantics issue. Many disciplines define terms in a way that is unique to that sysem. Many kicks "Turn" but "Turning kick" is a specific kick. The use of terms within a system must be understood in order to understand that system or discipline.

A classic punch travels in a "linear motion perpendicular to the surface of the target" but the 1/2 turn of the fist is what makes it a "Piercing motion". The same rotation of the footsword is what makes a Side Piercing Kick "Piercing". Po Eun move #3, the outward pressing kick which is a kick used to attack the knee joint (with some other infrequently used applications specified) has no increased efficacy for that particular target if it were to rotate.

Modern bullets rotate in flight. They have a hydrostatic effect with regard to damaging the body. This is characteristic of the Chang Hon "Piercing" as opposed to an arrow which would be characteristic of the thrust.