Just wondering.

[TKDTony2179]

Not really caring about the stance because i am taught a different stance to what I usually see in the ITF. I think my stance is more of a modern american stance. But to say stalk or crane stance really don't matter as long as they look the same and people can follow. IMO

 

[Earl Weiss]

Not really caring about the stance because i am taught a different stance to what I usually see in the ITF. I think my stance is more of a modern american stance. But to say stalk or crane stance really don't matter as long as they look the same and people can follow. IMO

Slapping a label or name on something may or may not mean you understand what you are doing. By understand I mean that you know the purpose(s) and application(s) . You may or may not. If I slap the same name or label on 6 different things, it would be hard to convince someone I understand that these things are really different.

 

[RTKDCMB]

RTKDCMB

I can see that C is a good option for me.

Thanks for the reply.

Welcome

 

[TKDTony2179]

Well what I mean is to call it a one leg stance (which we do) as opposed to a stalk stance or crane stance I think depends on the instructor because if they have the same purpose and application then names dont matter. Hince a cross and reverse punch is the roughly the same until somebody says a cross comes the chin and the reverse from the waist. But they both are rear hand straight punches. As I am studying the arts I am finding things are same but only applied differently. So sorry if I said I didnt care I was just focusing on the punches and hand position at the time of writing this.

To Earl Weiss

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well what I mean is to call it a one leg stance (which we do) as opposed to a stalk stance or crane stance I think depends on the instructor because if they have the same purpose and application then names dont matter.
To Earl Weiss

Do you call the kick that follows this stance a "Side Kick" or something else?

That would be true for the most part. However there are 2 issues with this.

1. It's rarely true
2. If your technology is unique to your geographic area, that only works in your area. It leads to confusion if you venture outside that area.
With regard to one the issue had to do with the stance and the kick. The one leg stance is purposed for a pressing kick. Not a side kick. The term side kick is non specific since there are several kinds. (Piercing, Pushing, Thrusting, Checking..to name the most common) Each type of side kick has specific purpose(s) which are distinct from the pressing kick.
How often will you need each one? I don't know. Go to a mechanic shop and see large tool boxes. I amsure they use some much more than others but the most efficient tool for the job gets the job done better than the others.

 

[TKDTony2179]

Well yea if I came to your school and did Po Eun then it would be some differences. Front kick to me is a front kick and a side kick is a side kixk. Now to use it as a snap, push, or a thrust is up to that person or how the are taught. I try not to get confused about names. I only look a the technique and try to understand the meaning or purpose.

Thanks Earl.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well yea if I came to your school and did Po Eun then it would be some differences. Front kick to me is a front kick and a side kick is a side kixk. Now to use it as a snap, push, or a thrust is up to that person or how the are taught. I try not to get confused about names. I only look a the technique and try to understand the meaning or purpose.

Thanks Earl.

Thank you for highlighting the problem. As with many things people can do whatever the heck they want to. You have shown that you are unaware as to how the techniques differ in execution and application. Perhaps the most important "training Secret" of TKD is to understant the purpose and application. Po Eun #3 is a "Pressing Kick" it differs from a side Piercing kick in the following aspects. Support leg is straight as opposed to bent. Support foot does not pivot, Toes are slightly higher than the heel as opposed to the other way around. it's exclusive purpose is to attack the knee joint with the target being slightly below the knee joint. A side thrust Kick uses the ball of the foot as opposed to the side piercing kick which uses the foot sword. The terms "Thrust' and "Pierce" have specific
meanings and applications as well.

Now, if you don't care that all these things are diifferent, How they are different and why they are different, that is your perogative.

 

[TKDTony2179]

Thank you for highlighting the problem. As with many things people can do whatever the heck they want to. You have shown that you are unaware as to how the techniques differ in execution and application. Perhaps the most important "training Secret" of TKD is to understant the purpose and application. Po Eun #3 is a "Pressing Kick" it differs from a side Piercing kick in the following aspects. Support leg is straight as opposed to bent. Support foot does not pivot, Toes are slightly higher than the heel as opposed to the other way around. it's exclusive purpose is to attack the knee joint with the target being slightly below the knee joint. A side thrust Kick uses the ball of the foot as opposed to the side piercing kick which uses the foot sword. The terms "Thrust' and "Pierce" have specific
meanings and applications as well.

Now, if you don't care that all these things are diifferent, How they are different and why they are different, that is your perogative.

Like I said I don't get too lost in a names. It is all about the techinque. I say half full, you say half empty and usually they are the same. Now as far as the difference in my stance, it may be a modern chamber for a side kick. Which we do say low side kick and not pressing kick. Just looking at the video below to make sure I am not blind but to me it is a low side kick. But why do you say pressing? Are you pressing down a low front kick?

Like I said I am here to learn the differences in my chang hon forms and that of the ITF or non ITF (O Do Kwan) forms and to have an understanding of purpose and real applications and nothing of false lies.
Sometimes I wonder if I am doing an older version that came to the states before Chai made changes to the form. I am just a curious martial artist.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Like I said I don't get too lost in a names. It is all about the techinque. I say half full, you say half empty and usually they are the same. Now as far as the difference in my stance, it may be a modern chamber for a side kick. Which we do say low side kick and not pressing kick. Just looking at the video below to make sure I am not blind but to me it is a low side kick. But why do you say pressing? Are you pressing down a low front kick?

Like I said I am here to learn the differences in my chang hon forms and that of the ITF or non ITF (O Do Kwan) forms and to have an understanding of purpose and real applications and nothing of false lies.
Sometimes I wonder if I am doing an older version that came to the states before Chai made changes to the form. I am just a curious martial artist.

I doubt you are doing an older version. I don't know what your lineage is. I do know the first english book published which was a translation of the first Korean book to have the form was in 1965 and lists it as "Pressing Kick" I did not come up with the term. The term is specified in the text, and the text also stipulates how the pressing kick is performed as opposed to any of the side kicks, and what the purpose is. You are not "pressing down a low front kick. " Well, I guess you could be but that's a different story. As stated the purpose of the pressing kick is to attack the knee joint. The application and execution is different than side - piercing, Thrusting, or pushing kick.

It is not a half full or half empty issue. It is more like saying you have a dog. I ask what breed. You say "One with 4 legs and a tail. " You may in fact have any one of a number of different breeds yet you cannot tell me if it is a Labrador or a German Shephard. Your position seems to be that there is no difference or you don't care about the differences. That is your right. It's a free country.

Since there are a number of different "Sde Kicks" as noted above, I can't address any claim of a "Modern Chamber" I can however state that there is a specific classic position for the Side Piercing Kick and that is Bending ready stance A which precedes the kick in Won Hyo. There is a reason for this. It facilitates proper execution of the rotation of the foot at impact whih is characteristic of the Side Piercing kick. There is a reason for that rotation and it's utility for specific targets. Again there are those who don't know about the specific application and execution. There are those who don't care about the application and execution, and there are those who don't know and don't care.
I am only trying to help those that don't now and care that they don't know.

 

[TKDTony2179]

Yes that chamber in Won Hyo and other tuls was once called a old school 7 chamber for what I was told. Hence the chamber leg looks like a 7. But we mostly do a higher chamber to where our knee is at our belly button and our leg is horizontal to the ground. We kick out and we chamber exactly the same. We aim with the heel. We change our heights by chambering higher or lower and aiming with the striking foot.

Kinda like this video.

But not like this.

So you can see that to me in Po Eun it is a low side kick striking with the blade edge of the foot. But that is my understanding and what I train.

Yes I do understand that people interpertation of a kick or techinque changes so I just ask pressing cause I wasn't for sure. Do you have videos on how to use the pressing kick?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yes that chamber in Won Hyo and other tuls was once called a old school 7 chamber for what I was told. Hence the chamber leg looks like a 7. But we mostly do a higher chamber to where our knee is at our belly button and our leg is horizontal to the ground. We kick out and we chamber exactly the same. We aim with the heel. We change our heights by chambering higher or lower and aiming with the striking foot.

Kinda like this video.

But not like this.

The proper stance for Won Hyo and Yul Guk that precedes the Side Piercing Kick is Bending ready stance A. See post 8 with the mislabled photo of One leg stance. That is it. The footsword is pulled to the support knee with the knee pointing slightly outward. This facilitates the rotation of the foot similar to how a fist rotates with a punch and for the same purpose. The first video shows a Generic Side kick whcih differs from the Chang Hon Side piercing kick (Won Hyo and Yul Guk, Not po Eun but second of the consecutive kicks in Kwang Gae) in that there is little to know rotation and the footsword is not the striking surface. rather the "heel" (bottom rear portion of the foot called the "Back Sole" in the Chang Hon system) is used.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Better,. but right foot should point straight ahead.

And the wrist should be straight.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Po Eun #3 is a "Pressing Kick" it differs from a side Piercing kick in the following aspects. Support leg is straight as opposed to bent. Support foot does not pivot, Toes are slightly higher than the heel as opposed to the other way around. it's exclusive purpose is to attack the knee joint with the target being slightly below the knee joint. A side thrust Kick uses the ball of the foot as opposed to the side piercing kick which uses the foot sword. The terms "Thrust' and "Pierce" have specific
meanings and applications as well.

That appears to be the ITF way of doing things, in the system that I have been taught the supporting leg is always slightly bent during any kick and for a side kick the toes are always either the same height or slightly lower than the heel for all levels. In Po Eun it is only a low side kick to the knee utilizing the outer knife edge of the foot (foot sword as you call it) but for other purposes it can be a block or a feint. We don't use the terms pressing or peircing side kicks, just a side thrusting kick with the heel (except for to the legs). I can think of no logical reason for using the ball of the foot for a side thrusting kick but each to their own. I like to think of the differences in the different styles of Taekwondo as different dialects of the same language.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I can think of no logical reason for using the ball of the foot for a side thrusting kick but each to their own. I like to think of the differences in the different styles of Taekwondo as different dialects of the same language.

feel free to disagree. Logical reasons for using the Side thrust kick with the ball of the foot as opposed to Side Piercing kick with the footsword.

A. Greater reach / penetration. (Where side piercing kick may not reach or penetrate)
B. Penetration may be nore damaging to softer targets then less penetration with the footsord.
C. foot position and orientation may be able to penetrate the position of the opponents guard where the Side Piercing kick may not.

 

[Earl Weiss]

So far no videos found of The Pressing kick application. Trying to past photo but having trouble.

 

[Earl Weiss]

for Photos

See pages 80 & 81 of this link
http://www.bluecottagetkd.com/files/vol04.pdf


And 120, 136-139 This link
http://www.bluecottagetkd.com/files/vol11.pdf

 

[TKDTony2179]

That appears to be the ITF way of doing things, in the system that I have been taught the supporting leg is always slightly bent during any kick and for a side kick the toes are always either the same height or slightly lower than the heel for all levels. In Po Eun it is only a low side kick to the knee utilizing the outer knife edge of the foot (foot sword as you call it) but for other purposes it can be a block or a feint. We don't use the terms pressing or peircing side kicks, just a side thrusting kick with the heel (except for to the legs). I can think of no logical reason for using the ball of the foot for a side thrusting kick but each to their own. I like to think of the differences in the different styles of Taekwondo as different dialects of the same language.

I think you said it better than I did.

 

[TKDTony2179]

feel free to disagree. Logical reasons for using the Side thrust kick with the ball of the foot as opposed to Side Piercing kick with the footsword.A. Greater reach / penetration. (Where side piercing kick may not reach or penetrate)*B. Penetration may be nore damaging to softer targets then less penetration with the footsord.*C. foot position and orientation may be able to penetrate the position of the opponents guard where the Side Piercing kick may not.

Only reason for me to use the ball of the foot in a side kick is for point sparring. Just a greater reach right? I don't know about the penetration.

 

[Cyriacus]

Only reason for me to use the ball of the foot in a side kick is for point sparring. Just a greater reach right? I don't know about the penetration.

Depends how you do your side kicks. For people who do the kind of half side kick that starts with a vertical knee raise (without turning over) then using the ball of the foot would be weird. For a full and proper side kick (as far as TKD goes) it makes perfect sense.

 

[TKDTony2179]

Ok Earl my man. I looked at 80 and 81 and to me a pressing kick is just a low side kick. Rather you use a ready stance A or stork stance or whatever stance you want in an altercation, rest of world will say low side kick is the same as a pressing kick and piercing kick is the same as a side kick to the body. I understand that if I am hitting a torso than the heel is better but if I am hitting the knee then a blade edge is is better for more surface area. Unfortunately I could not open the other link.

So honestly I will say I was not taught ready stance A in Won hyo but a closed ready stance. Po Eun tul 2 movement is considered a two punches to the sky with a left leg stance which we have our right leg chambered for a low side kick. So yea you would see some differences in my forms and yours.