Is Wing Chun even viable.

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by ZockerSWAT, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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  2. Holmejr

    Holmejr White Belt

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    Confusing self defense with sport. We tend to compare martial arts with whether it will work in the ring. I hear many say: "oh, you would never see that in the ring" or "that would never work in the ring". I personally don't care about the ring. On the street, your self defense is training, technique and surprise. Your moves should be "faster than action". When I say technique, I mean almost ANY legitimate and well trained technique. All the classic martial arts give you the tools to defend yourself on the street. IMO, being well trained in Wing chun makes it viable on the street. Go for Wing chun, Muay Thai, Kenpo, FMA, Karate or whatever. Just go for it well.

    Black belt in Eskrido de Alcuizar.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think dismissing "the ring" is a mistake. While I agree that context makes a difference, and the opponent matters (many things work on less-trained folks, but won't work against that trained opponent in the ring), sport is an excellent place to get information. We can't get to anything like useful statistics about technique in self-defense situations, but we can with sport. Ignoring that information isn't using all your tools.
     
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  4. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I've heard this "rings have rules, get you killed in the street" argument for, literally, decades now. I've heard it applied to pretty much every martial art, MMA, and even firearms competitions.

    Here's what I know:
    You don't have to engage in sporting competitions to learn how to fight and survive. But doing so does not harm your ability to fight and sometimes can help.

    The more realistic the competition, the better. At the bottom end is "tag" style point sparring and bullseye shooting. But even they offer benefits that are directly applicable.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I was once pretty close to the "rules get you killed" camp. My view is now much as you put here.
     
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  6. Holmejr

    Holmejr White Belt

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    Yes, should have rephrased that to "as much about the ring". Of course, coming from a JKD background originally, I believe in absorb what is useful. With that said, a kick to the groin, head butt, breaking a bone or a gouge to the eyes typically ends an attack faster than breaking your hand on somebodies face.
     
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree that

    - sport is the path,
    - combat is the goal.

    I can't believe that we are still debating on simply logic like this today. Those illegal techniques uses in the ring (or on the mat) are the most effective techniques used in the street.

    To kick someone when he is on the ground may be illegal in sport. It's deadly in the street. A student of mine, his son was killed by this.

    A: Dear teacher! my son was kicked on the ground. There were blood in his skull. The doctor said there is nothing that he can do. Do you have any secret Chinese medicine that can save my son's life?
    B: I'm sorry that I don't know any secret Chinese medicine that can save your son's life. I'm truly sorry.

    I hate to let people down but I won't say what I don't know. That evening, my student lost his son. I lost my student's faith. :arghh:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I am going to say kind of statistically/anecdotally (if that is a thing)

    It doesn't.

    In that face punchy punchy ends more fights by far than any other move in a no rules fight as far as I can tell.
     
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  9. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    No
     
  10. Karate student96

    Karate student96 White Belt

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    Jesus Christ I don’t even use this site much but I keep seeing your dumbass comments everywhere talking trash about everything and anything....my experience the one with the biggest mouth is the one with the smallest amount of abilities
     
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  11. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    I wonder who this is:rolleyes:
     
  12. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Oh and if I have to say yes (in other words a dictactorship). Then no point in the thread.

    My answer is no.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Because.....
     
  14. Cynik75

    Cynik75 Orange Belt

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    I have seen dozens times more eye pokes and groin kicks in MMA matches than in youtube streetfights.
     
  15. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    And that's yet another can of worms. "Useful" varies enormously from person to person, place to place, and time period to time period. And example which I like to use from "knife fighting" is to compare the knives and techniques of 15th Century Germany, during the "Little Ice Age," to the knives and techniques of the tropical Philippines. Both had sophisticated knife fighting systems but both the weapons and the techniques were very different and one reason was because of the clothing relative to the physical environments of each. And much of the standard technique of each would not have been "useful" to be "absorbed" to the other.

    At the same time, many of the underlying principals are similar. This is because humans are still built the same way, move the same, bend in the same places, break in the same ways, and die from the same injuries, regardless of the time or place. On a certain level, "fighting is fighting."

    Ah well. I have more of that rant, but I think you can see where it goes. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  16. Ivan

    Ivan Blue Belt

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    The art itself is viable. It has been used in MMA by legends such as Jon Jones and I think GSP as well as Anderson Silva (could be wrong about the last two). The problem is the overly traditionalist way of training in China, and most schools that teach it, as they don't include sparring classes against more modern styles. It's quite hard to use a martial art against a boxer, if you have only ever sparred against people that use the same martial art as you - this especially applies to Wing Chun due to the uniqueness of the style, and its lack of resemblance to virtually any other style I have ever seen.


    I personally think this demonstrates the way that wing chun can pressure opponents in a very good manner. Wing Chun definitely doesn't have the strongest punches, but they are definitely the fastest due to the centre line theory, of always taking the more direct route. The punches you see by the man using Wing Chun, the guy in the black trousers, are a staple technique of this famous wushu/kung-fu style, and can be compared to a battering ram breaking down a gate - the battering ram isn't initially powerful enough to break the door down, but the damage it causes over several amounts of strikes builds up and results in the gate crumbling to pieces.
    [​IMG]
    Here is Wing Chun in MMA. Even Joe Rogan acknowledges it works in this video:

    However, do keep in mind that in contrast to other more modern martial arts, it takes a considerably longer time to be able to apply it, due to the science and technique behind the art that is heavily focused on. Tell your brother to not e discouraged, he took up a great style. But also tell him when he feels confident enough, to test his skills against people of other styles in a a controlled sparring environment with appropriate supervision and equipment.
     
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  17. Cynik75

    Cynik75 Orange Belt

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    Does Jon Jones know that?
     
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  18. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

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    Someone once asked me if Wing Chun was good for self defense "in a street fight". I told them no, go train in Sanshou first.

    Came back to me later on, said they trained Sanshou but also Wing Chun and that I had been wrong.

    Told them no a second time, and was right both times.
     
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  19. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Insufficient long range methodology consisting of an underwhelming side kick, and possibly some stomps. No that I think the close range part is sufficient either....
     
  20. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    You’ve trained in wing chun?123
     

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