Information on Dr. Gyi???

[Tgace]

and here.....
http://www.scubajkd.com/MAMA/Articles/Dr Gyi.htm

 

[Tgace]

An E-mail from a reporter in Ohio....

Dear Mr. Gerace -

A few years ago, some local vets started bugging me to look into Dr.
Gyi's story. They claimed that Gyi was publicly misrepresenting -
usually to people in bando classes he taught - the nature and extent of
his military record. I checked with the records people in Missouri and
determined that he had never been connected officially to the U.S.
military.

When I spoke to Gyi at his home, however, he readily acknowledged that
this was the case. Now, I don't know what he says to other people. He
did hint to me that he had some sort of connection with the CIA, and I
guess he also talks about being with some sort of irregular fighting
force in Asia during WWII and other conflicts. (Forgive the vagueness,
it's been a while.)

I know that a lot of vets around the country have long made an issue
out of Dr. Gyi's supposed fabrications, including the people at POW
network, whom I have spoken to. But from this end, I couldn't justify
doing a story, given the fact that Gyi told me flat-out that he was
never U.S. military. As to any other claims he may be making, whether
true, false or in-between, I can't be of much help.

Regards,

jim phillips
senior writer
the athens news

 

[Tgace]

Which leads me to wonder why he claims lifetime VFW and DAV and AL memberships?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My only question is, is how much input and direction into the text did Gyi have? Was it alot, or was it left to the discression of those writing it, and they wrote what they thought was right? I've had several clients hand me skimpy notes, and leave it all up to me to figure it out.

Another question is, how much of the comments are made by disgruntled former students? I've dealt with disgruntled former clients, a few who made very inaccurate comments about things, most misunderstandings, 1 was malicious.

Let me ask a bold question here: Is there any video or audio footage of Gyi making these claims? Articles in legit main streem publications that echo them?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Which leads me to wonder why he claims lifetime VFW and DAV and AL memberships?

Is service a requirement for membership?

Edit:

Found VFW requirements:
http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=mbr.levelc&cid=157


If he's a member, he must have met their requirements. Is there a way to verify membership?

 

[James Miller]

As far as Im concerned Bob, Mr. Gyi's own promotional posters and websites and information put out for his seminars tell the story in themselves. How is that all "misunderstood"? This poster was as recent as 2004. The claims there are quite clear....

I'm only going to comment on this point. You can't hold Gyi 100% accountable for what is in a flyer for one of his seminars. We at Horizon Martial Arts host quite a few seminars in a year. When it comes to making the seminar flyers many of our guests aren't always consulted. Once in a while our flyers may be a little off. Usually nothing earth shattering, but mistakes are made. The same has happened for us when web work has been done by our earlier web designers. Mr Hubbard only posts what we send him to eliminate these types of errors.

:asian:

 

[Tgace]

Any of those posters ever claim Mr. Hartman was a Delta Force operator or anything like that...by accident?

 

[Tgace]

Is service a requirement for membership?

Edit:

Found VFW requirements:
http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=mbr.levelc&cid=157


If he's a member, he must have met their requirements. Is there a way to verify membership?

Yes..in an American branch of the service.

 

[RickRed]

I'm only going to comment on this point. You can't hold Gyi 100% accountable for what is in a flyer for one of his seminars. We at Horizon Martial Arts host quite a few seminars in a year. When it comes to making the seminar flyers many of our guests aren't always consulted. Once in a while our flyers may be a little off. Usually nothing earth shattering, but mistakes are made. The same has happened for us when web work has been done by our earlier web designers. Mr Hubbard only posts what we send him to eliminate these types of errors.

:asian:

What about the website, the personal contact quotes...all jive with the fact that the guy is or at least was saying stuff that he couldn't back up.

No matter what, you are responsible for your name. Buy a house and see how your excuse flies. YOu have to pay to clear your name of things that don't apply to you because someone else has the same or close name.

For the extent of stuff about Gyi's miltary claims and such, why can't anyone find any statements from Gyi saying that the stuff is wrong? This has all come from him, not other people pumping him up.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Yes..in an American branch of the service.

Therefore:

IF (he is in fact a member OR was a member)
THEN he must have passed their credential checks
ELSEIF (he is not a member AND is claiming to be one)
THEN it is obvious he is lying;

 

[RickRed]

I’m a civilian, and that might be the problem here. I have no personal interest if Gyi’s military claims are bogus or not. I respect that the vet as well as active military personal may have problems with Gyi, but I’m divorce of that situation...



The problem is that this thread was started to screw with the MT staff and then others jumped in during the frenzy. I don’t have a problem with any of my fellow MTers for having a different opinion on this. The only person involved with this that I do have issues with Robert Rouuselot for initially trying to undermined my seminar. I look forward to future exchanges on other thread that we will most undoubting take turns agreeing and disagreeing with each other.
Respectfully,

I don't care about civilian or not, if this guy is making bogus stuff up, then he is a fake. Martial arts is suppose to be about developing personally as well. If this guy is so advanced and still lying about stuff like this, then he isnt a person that I want to be around - no matter how good he is at martial arts.

Tyson was a great boxer, but I wouldn't hang out with him for a million dollars because of his antics.

If someone was saying this stuff to impress you so that they could date your daughter, it would make you more suspicous and I don't think you would ignore it, so I can't ignore it now.

Someone's skill is no excuse for being a fraud or a fake.

 

[Tgace]

Let me just clarify once again. I am not discounting Mr. Gyi's abilities as a martial artist or instructor. By all accounts the guy was/is hardcore. I do however have a character problem with false military claims. As I do with the instructors who have a cop in their dojo and claim that they "train police" or have some intimate knowledge of "police tactics". Or teach soldiers/prior service personnel in their classes and tout that they do "military training".

 

[Tgace]

Therefore:

IF (he is in fact a member OR was a member)
THEN he must have passed their credential checks
ELSEIF (he is not a member AND is claiming to be one)
THEN it is obvious he is lying;

Well I shot off an e-mail to the VFW so we'll see....

 

[Tgace]

Let me ask a bold question here: Is there any video or audio footage of Gyi making these claims? Articles in legit main streem publications that echo them?

Well, heres a copy of his WWII momoirs that were published in Command Magazine #16. I actually had a copy of that issue once, wish Id kept it.

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/bando/c16.html

 

[Tgace]

The age thing.

There are free resources on the web that hook up to public records. Im not going to tell you which one I used because they personally scare me and I am not going to post someones address or phone, ever. I have taken steps that have kept my current personal info off of them. There are old addresses out there that were dead on in all details. PM me for details on that one. Anyway...

MAUNG GYI Born Mar 1936
XX XXXXXXXX BLVD
ATHENS, OH (XXX) XXX-XXXX

Note the birthdate, which is repeated in different sources, makes him 10 yo in 1946. After the war was over. This is probably from what he has told the DMV was his DOB.

 

[Tgace]

And to forestall the "mistaken identity" argument thats sure to come. Athens Ohio is Mr. Gyi's verifiable hometown. How many MAUNG GUY's of the approximately same age do you think live in Ohio alone? Not to mention an exact City/Town.

 

[Tgace]

History of the Kukri
An interesting aside and included here because the Bando Logo includes it.

 

[Don Roley]

It is obvious that neither side is going to yield.

Hey, I will yeild as soon as something other than wild specualtion is given for me to believe!!!

It seems to me that the defenders of Gyi are throwing out just about anything they can in the hopes that people will accept it. When someone throws out the idea that maybe Gyi's record can't be found because he was not in the American military and TGace finds references to him claiming to be in the USMC, I can't help but think that the Gyi defenders are not bothering to do any research but are instead coming up with possible excuses to try to convince people.

Now I am hearing the idea that Gyi did not make all these claims- but that others did. But again TGace has come forward with the Command magazine article that clearly shows that Gyi talks about being in the Ghurkas. And let us not forget his VFW claims. (BTW- the VFW chapters pretty much work on an honor system. If you claim something they will pretty much take your word for it unless they have reason to believe otherwise.)

It seems somewhat concieted to think that just because someone has not heard those claims straight from Gyi that Gyi could never have made them. And I can think of two names of people who watched and did nothing while their students made claims of rank and such from teachers in Japan and gave the excuse that it was not them making the claims when confronted by representatives from those orginizations. They watched and did nothing to counter the stories, benifited from them and then said they had nothing to do with them.

So, where has Gyi or his orginization tried to counter all these claims of POW status, Gulf War experience, etc?

Let us stick with just the Ghurka claims to show just how much mental gymnastics I would have to go through in order to believe that Gyi is anything other than a fraud.

The only records we have been able to access for his age clearly say that he was too young to have served. No Gyi supporter has been able to provide any records that say he was old enough. So first we have to beleive that all the official records are wrong and Gyi was at least five to ten years older than they say to sneak into the military. (I can beleive that someone 15 could sneak in if they were big- but no way a ten year old could pull that off.)

Next, I would have to believe that all the official British military sites, histories, etc relating to the Ghurkas are wrong and that they really did recruit from Burma. Not one record of this happening seems to have been known to the folks at Sandhurst and instead it just fell through the cracks.

And in addition I would have to believe that every single record relating to his existence in the Ghurkas during WWII had been lost in what must be the biggest paperwork SNAFU to have ever happened. Not one record that says he was in the army he says he was in can seem to be found. The same can be said about Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, POW, etc.....

Now, for any one of those three conditions I would normally say that the chances are so low that I would require proof before giving them any serious thought. But all three?????? It makes the explinations by whacko UFO cults sound reasonable!! There seems less chance of all that being the case than there is in someone surviving 1000 games of Russian Roulete!!!

There is no proof!!! And this is just for one of his claims. As Bob Hubbarb pointed out, liars do not tend to limit themselves to only one lie.

I will change my viewpoint when I see something like verifiable facts and not a lot of wild speculation. Why can't some of you Gyi defenders do half the work TGace has in bringing facts to this debate? Why not go to Gyi and ask him to prove his claims? If other people are making the claims- then record him debunking them and play it for the world to set the record straight!!!!

 

[tradrockrat]

Hello all,

I've read this thread with great interest as I have known Dr. Gyi since 1978 (at age six) and most recently saw him last year when he was in town for a Kukri clinic.

Here's my take on this controversy.

1. Dr. Gyi is a balls to the wall hard core technician. He is still fast as can be, precise in his technique, and a gifted teacher.

2. What he is NOT, is a good man or, by extension, a martial artist.

Martial Arts is NOT only about being practical or good or fast, etc. It is a life style that is hard to attain and maintain. Fighting is martial COMBAT. the art comes from more than just looking good while doing it.

I won't comment on second hand information as it all seems to have been stated before except for two things
- whomever said to meet the man first was on the right track
- Please realize that the founder of one of those sites about his military history is a disgruntled former member of the ABA

Take nothing at face value - heck, you probobly shouldn't take me at face value, but here are actual events that I have personally witnessed.

1. Perhaps most discusting, I saw Docs picture books from "the first gulf war" they were clearly doctored. By that I mean the "blood" on the wounded were drawn in in Red felt tip pen! When I saw this I pointed it out and asked, "What's this?" Gyi looked at me like I was an idiot, and said, "Blood."

I asked, "Did you color it in because it didn't turn out in the photos?"

He replied that it was blood, nothing else.
He no longer shows those pics.

2. Members of the ABA are forbidden to discuss the situation in front of Gyi under the reasoning that it detracts from what's important - the training.

3. At an animal clinic in the early 90's Dr Gyi told many stories about is time in WWII. I have copies of all his published stories you have refered to in previous posts. I went home and reread them, and by his own admission, he was in two places at once during WWII. Mistake of an aging man? Maybe - I don't know.

4. At that same clinic, I was slated to teach a straight cane form -- without even being asked. When I complained that I came and paid to learn Cobra techniques, Gyi replied that I owed my life to him and other Veterans, and that I should do as I was told. So much for discussion. In fact, if I had not been specifically asked to stay and teach by a few men I really admire and respect, I would have left that day.

5. At a national tournament, I personally watched Gyi engage in behavior toward female members that could be nothing but sexual harrasment. The excuse made by others who saw this? He's from a different era where that stuff is allowed. I replied that he lives here and now in America and he represents the the entire ABA. His behavior defines us all. They didn't like that, but I caused "trouble" the whole time I was a member of the ABA.

6. A little side note that might explain why I never fell under the spell of Gyi. I was taught Bando by a neighbor who had already left the ABA over what he felt was betrayal by Dr. Gyi. Doc had actually lived with my teacher in the late 70's for a few months - that's how I met Gyi before ever training in Bando. I personally witnessed things that i didn't understand at the time because I was so young, but as I grew up, my teacher stressed over and over that Dr. Gyi was a great fighter and teacher, but that he was full of ********. However, once this military controversy started, I left the ABA completely.

I already knew that Gyi had the tendency to embelish and outright fabricate stories. I thought it was worth putting up with it to study Bando. After this, I realized I was wrong. I had caused concern and anger my entire time as a member of the ABA due to the history between my teacher and Gyi, my tendency to kick a$$ in tournaments, and my (to some) rapid promotion to black belt (12 years is rapid?).

Bando has four belts only - White, green, brown, and black. One year I competed as a green belt, though I was ready to test for Brown. I won the sparing and empty hand championship. Six months later I tested for Black. I had trained over 3 hours a day six days a week. Dr. Gyi himself tested me, and I passed. The next tournament I competed as a black belt, and a group of high ranking belts "officially" contested my right to be there. I won the Edged weapons and wooden weapons divisions. Dr. Gyi told the complainers to take the feild and compete against me if they didn't like it. No one did. I only tell this story to show that Gyi wasn't an @$$ to me the whole time, and that he wasn't an ogre - I have no axe to grind with him.

But, I only joined the organization to compete in their tournaments, and I never felt at home there, though there are members of the ABA who I count among the greatest people on earth.

Dr. Gyi is not among them.

take this for what it is - my recollections and experiences.

Thank you all for listening,
Trad

 

[Tgace]

So...Is Mr. Gyi aware that I have been invited to ask him questions about this stuff? Will he answer my questions? Is that invitation still open? Will I be expected or will I just be an *** coming in out of nowhere disturbing things?