if you want to groin kick. train the inside leg kick.

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by drop bear, Dec 18, 2014.

  1. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Lol... Hug is a meme around here.
    Whoever mentions Andy Hug's Axe kick during an exchange automatically wins.
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Depends which one you use more.
     
  3. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Touché
     
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    You… do know who Rod Sacharnowski is, yeah…? Cause…. well….
     
  5. Zero

    Zero Master Black Belt

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    The whole chambering of kicks question can be quite an in-depth one, and as you say, so open to variables. There's no one stop answer on this, which I think is what you are saying in response to Dropbear, in any event.

    Power/Result of Impact:
    The snap of the kick from the fulcrum/leverage point of the knee to full extension absolutely generates power and very much so via its whip-like action. It is also an incredibly fast motion when you have trained it well.

    But from my experience (and I actually use snap kicks/chambered kicks for head hunting much more than straight leg), a traditional muay thai-like straight leg round house seems to generate more power and more impact than the equivalent round house off the back leg executed as a knee chambered snap kick. Having experienced both many times and from throwing them myself in most fights, that's my take on it. If that was where K-man was coming from, I would say on the whole, the straight leg is a harder hitting weapon... But clearly the whip of the leg from the chambered position generates a lot of power!

    Speed:
    It is a very, very close thing, but you could say the straight leg round house is a fraction quicker than the chambered, snap kick. As the leg goes from the foot off the floor to the target in one swinging motion. However, while the chambered equivalent has two motions, the chambering can be done as one fluid phase, so that the extension of the foreleg from the chambered high knee is almost as fast as the straight leg.

    Telegraphing:
    As for easier to read...hmmm and I note you say "sometimes", so I totally agree with that. You can play with the variables with chambering if you are a decent kicker. The chambered snap of a front foot kick can be very deceptive, particularly if you are chambering the knee up your centre line, rather than a traditional round house movement. Throw a couple of punches to disguise the incoming kick. I normally do a couple of jabs as camouflage and as you are pulling back your second jab, the knee is being chambered up your centre line right under cover of the jab. You then extend your leg from the chambered knee and crack the kick on the side of the head. There is almost a blind spot as the foot or shin connects to the side of the head if you throw the kick up the middle of your body and then come in with the snap to the outside of your opponent's face/jaw.

    Also, timing can be very deceptive. You can play with the two phases, just like working a slow ball into your over (sorry to all Yanks that don't play/understand cricket!!) can be effective. You can chamber slow and then whip out the kick at a higher speed, difference tempo or cadence and catch your opponent off guard. You can also play around with the overall motion more than the straight kick. So that you initially chamber low to what looks like a rib kick, then take it high at the last moment and extend to head contact.

    Summary: on the whole, if you are a good kicker, I would say the chamber/snap kick is less able to read and that the straight leg kick is actually a more telegraphed movement.

    Old age pensioner high kickers:
    As an aside, I also feel that maybe (maybe) the repetitive use of the knee chambered correctly (and provided you are pivoting on your foot and engaging/opening your hips correctly), especially on high kicks, is more sustainable and less likely to subject your body to wear and tear over years and years of throwing these, rather than straight leg kicks. But that's just my hunch...
     
  6. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Kingeri = groin kick, why practice something else when a groin kick is available. I don't understand why the need to complicate things. use a bloody groin kick when wanting to kick the groin and come to that why are we being coy? if you want to kick them in the nuts do so.
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Because you can't train it live. Which means you might land the groin kick but eat a right cross in the process. Where you train the inner leg they can also train knocking your head off if you get the timing wrong.
     
  8. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Sigh… yes, you can "train it live"…. and not eating a punch when kicking to the inner thigh (which is closer than the groin) doesn't mean a damn thing… you're already further out of range with the thigh kick…
     
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  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You missed the point of my post, it wasn't about kicking to the groin as such it was about being coy and calling testicles the 'groin', call a spade a spade for goodness sake! In the OP title it should read if you want to kick to the nuts/testicles train........'
     
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Most inner leg kicks will catch the groin if you aim them wrong.

    So no you are not so far out of range as to invalidate the kick. You may hit with the foot rather than the shin. But that is about it.

    And even then it is closer to training a groin kick live than them not defending the kick at all.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Your first clip is a kick that missed, and would never be chosen deliberately as a "groin kick"… but we've covered all of that before. The second is… look, I don't even know why you put it up. It's a poor example of, well, pretty much everything. It's not a drill… it's not a targeting exercise… it's not a technical demonstration… it's not really anything other than a blonde girl doing something ineffective on many levels. If it's there for you to demonstrate "not training live", well… it's not meant to be. Which, frankly, invalidates that as a criticism.
     
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  12. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Groin kicks are poor examples of training kicks. You kick a pad or a static target. Not one fighting back. So they are all varying degrees of blobd girl.

    The other kick which is an accident is more effective and better executed.
     
  13. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Yeah… you need to get out more… there are plenty of ways to "train live"…

    As far as the other kick being "more effective and better executed"… no. It's really not. It's poorly thrown, misses it's target, takes too long to take effect, and, well, would be so far below reliable as being effective outside of a competitive environment. So, no.
     
  14. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I have utilized Predator body armour to allow full on, groin kicks with movement. That is just one way to practice them live.
     

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  15. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I do agree that the inside leg kick is a good way to train for the groin kick.
     
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  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    What would be those plenty of ways to train live?

    How should that kick be done?
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    My issue there is you have so much padding that you loose the reaction a bit. So the partner either has to guess at a response or is unreasonably resistant.

    I have trained with a fist suit. And I don't know,most stuff is just more tactile with some sort of variation of mma gear.
     
  18. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    = cod's wallop
     
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  19. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    One way is with non-contact sparring, even though you are not giving someone chestnuts you still have to defend against it.
     
  20. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    Poor accuracy leading to a kick that had more of an effect than hitting the target he was aiming for.

    A good way to break your toes unless your opponent is standing with his legs wide open she would be better off hitting with the ball of the foot.123
     

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