Identical twin studies show that homosexuality is not genetic

[Makalakumu]

Its definitely real and valid which is why the study is just silly to me and a waist of time and energy. Its like studying what is love. Love is love who cares how or why. It just is. If I'm gay who cares why I just am. To research it to me is a means to try to devalue it.

Humans are different in so many different ways. I'm not sure if knowing how or why those differences occur devalue them. If we were talking about differences in cognitive performance, we certainly wouldn't feel like understanding that would devalue cognitive performance.

The difference, IMO, is that we are talking about sexual behavior. Our culture has significant biases toward certain kinds of behaviors and these biases have little rational basis. Does it really matter if homosexual behavior is genetic or environmental? Love is love and the question of what is love doesn't make love less than it is.

 

[crushing]

Its definitely real and valid which is why the study is just silly to me and a waist of time and energy. Its like studying what is love. Love is love who cares how or why. It just is. If I'm gay who cares why I just am. To research it to me is a means to try to devalue it.

There are likely lots of inquisitive people that are genuinely interested in knowing the hows and whys. That's pretty much what science is. Research has revealed an incredibly fantastic world of interesting facts and phenomena. I don't think research revealing the our wonderful and improbable world has devalued it one bit.

 

[ballen0351]

I guess in my opinion the only reason you would study why someone is gay would be to change them. We study bipolar for example to cure it. In my opinion there is nothing to cure about being gay.
Same with love there is no reason to study it other then to say it really isn't anything buct a chemical reaction blah blah blah it means nothing. As an attempt to devalue it.

I guess its possible o study it just because but if that's the case I'd rather see the effort put to curing something deadly.

 

[crushing]

The only things I see as getting devalued through knowledge and understanding is beliefs based in mysticism and the supernatural. That may be a scary prospect for some.

 

[Flying Crane]

honestly, I can see both sides of it. Yeah, we are an inquisitive sort and we want to understand why. And there's nothing wrong with that. BUT, in this case it is difficult to not wonder about what ulterior motives may be driving the research, because there's a history of it.

 

[ballen0351]

The only things I see as getting devalued through knowledge and understanding is beliefs based in mysticism and the supernatural. That may be a scary prospect for some.

Or saying being gay is wrong and we can fix you. Look research shows your not born this way so take this pill and you will be better.

 

[arnisador]

Since it is possible to choose to be gay.

Well, it's possible to choose to act as though you were gay, but it's much less clear that you can choose to be gay. Do you feel you personally could enact such a choice, right now, if you so desired?

Definitions are a real problem in this area. Early AIDS origins research was held up when epidemiologists couldn't figure out what was going on in Haiti. Long story short: Asking "Are you gay" may get a resounding No where asking "Do you work as a male prostitute (for other men) as a living?" might get a Yes. These men didn't identify as gay any more than a prisoner in a same-sex relationship would. It's complicated.

 

[arnisador]

I'm not sure I agree that being gay is a subset of "regular" humans only made to take care of our kids

It's one theory. Remember, we're talking about evolutionary pressures that may have been acting hundreds of thousands of years ago. Human population didn't grow very rapidly for a long time--it hit one billion worldwide around 1800 CE--so we may be looking at slight differences. Given the prevalence of same-sex play in other primates, it probably doesn't need a great deal of explanation, really.

 

[arnisador]

I don't think being gay has an evolutionary advantage.

Per Dawkins, look at it from a genes'-eye persepctive. Might a mother benefit evolutionarily from having a set of genes that occasionally produces a gay child? It is plausible...not proven, certainly, but plausible.

 

[arnisador]

Yeah that's kinda what I ment. It would be hard to study because I could say im gay and mess up the results. There is no gay test. Like if I study Cancer I can tell thru tests if you do or don't have it. You can't test if your gay or not and then how do Bi-sexuals fit? So its hard to study it. I'm just not sury why there even is a study on this. Its like where studying it to cure it or something. I just think we could spend that money elsewhere.

Given the bias against homosexuals, arguing that it was purely genetic--which no one believes to be true, BTW--would undercut the arguments against gay rights. We need to study it because of such biases.

 

[granfire]

Per Dawkins, look at it from a genes'-eye persepctive. Might a mother benefit evolutionarily from having a set of genes that occasionally produces a gay child? It is plausible...not proven, certainly, but plausible.

well, I do grant you this though: a lot of gay guys are very creative. Certainly helpful for the society.

 

[ballen0351]

On an evolutionary scale it would sever a better purpose for people to be born unable to produce kids. A gay male can still make babies so it doesn't help over population.

 

[ballen0351]

Well, it's possible to choose to act as though you were gay, but it's much less clear that you can choose to be gay. Do you feel you personally could enact such a choice, right now, if you so desired?

Definitions are a real problem in this area. Early AIDS origins research was held up when epidemiologists couldn't figure out what was going on in Haiti. Long story short: Asking "Are you gay" may get a resounding No where asking "Do you work as a male prostitute (for other men) as a living?" might get a Yes. These men didn't identify as gay any more than a prisoner in a same-sex relationship would. It's complicated.

Could I personally do it. No I have no reason to. Can it be done absolutely just as your two examples prove its done all the time.

 

[Makalakumu]

One thing to keep in mind is that our culture has a set of memes that we pass on regarding sexuality and these memes could be coloring how we view this. The idea that homosexuality is something a person is born with and cannot change could just be a reaction to the negative memes that creat bias in our culture.

Now, imagine that you live in a culture where homosexual relationships are accepted and encouraged. There are lots of examples of this in our time and throughout history. How might that bias change the way data is perceived?

 

[ballen0351]

But encouraging homosexuality goes against our instinct to breed.

 

[arnisador]

Could I personally do it. No I have no reason to. Can it be done absolutely just as your two examples prove its done all the time.

Those are examples of people engaging in same-sex relations, but the point is that being homosexual--fundamentally attracted to those of your own sex--and engaging in sexual activity (for money, or lack of more desirable options, etc.) are not the same thing. You can choose to engage in same-sex sex acts but can't choose to be primarily attracted to the same sex.

 

[arnisador]

But encouraging homosexuality goes against our instinct to breed.

Eh. Plenty of cultures have separated out having sex for reproduction and having sex for pleasure. In ancient Greece, in modern rural Afghanistan, it's been commonplace for a man to have a wife for producing children and transferring property to the next generation but to also have a male lover for sex-for-pleasure.

 

[ballen0351]

Those are examples of people engaging in same-sex relations, but the point is that being homosexual--fundamentally attracted to those of your own sex--and engaging in sexual activity (for money, or lack of more desirable options, etc.) are not the same thing. You can choose to engage in same-sex sex acts but can't choose to be primarily attracted to the same sex.

Yes that was the point on why an accurate scientific study is hard. There is no gay test.

 

[Big Don]

I think that statement is really really REALLY iffy.

It suggests that you can also choose to be straight.

Anecdotal? Sure, does that mean it is not true, NO.
Yes, some people do choose to be gay.

 

[Flying Crane]

Anecdotal? Sure, does that mean it is not true, NO.
Yes, some people do choose to be gay.

Did you choose to be straight (I'm assuming you are, anyway). If so, then you could just as easily chosen to be gay.