well, when you put character development on your banner...or moral straightness....being gay does not make you immoral or lacking character.
(considering that the LDS church caved on it, I think it's a good sign)
But that is beside the point.
Identical twin studies show that homosexuality is not genetic
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
well, when you put character development on your banner...or moral straightness....being gay does not make you immoral or lacking character.
(considering that the LDS church caved on it, I think it's a good sign)
But that is beside the point.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Guys, I'm flat out confused at the subtext going in in this thread... I'm not tracking at all. It's like every post has had a few key sentences deleted.
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I don't feel so alone now.
The Fulton Street Fair's denizens earn my contempt because that is NOT how you behave in polite society and the City of San Francisco earns my contempt for allowing that kind of behavior in public.
Gay activists also earn my contempt by the heavy handed way they go about their activism.
Just back and forth on homophobic comments.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I'm sure the Fulton Street Fair's denizens will get by just fine without you. As will the City of San Francisco.
Talking about this?
http://fultonstreetfair.com
via Nexus 7 w/Tapatalk - please ignore predictive text spelling errors
no
sorry
after a 12 hr day i transposed fulton for Folsom
don"t link to photoas of that...
Ok, yeah the two fairs are very different. lol
I can see how some of the fetish type things could freak some people out. But doesn't look too dissimilar to madi gra.
Looks fairly tame from the pictures and they are just having a good time. To me it doesn't look that bad, but I can guess how others would look at it.
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Not really. Aside from the author's shady scientific bonafides, we have the simple fact that identical twins aren't.....well.....identical. As in, their DNA aren't identical,.....
That's not some Christian website, or atheist website with a bias and agenda to grind, either-that's Scientific American-identical twins aren't genetically identical.
Orthis:
Seen here Ad infinitum....ad nauseum. Identical twins aren't.
Not interesting at all.
Clones aren't truly identical, either. The first cloned cat does not look like her donor/mother.
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/tech/cloning/cloningmyths/
aaradia
Yellow Belt
Ok, time to come out on martial talk I suppose. I am absolutely sure in my case it is genetic. And most of the people I knew when I was active in the GLBT community felt the same way. But I have known some people where it was a choice.
It shouldn't matter. Freedom of religion is a choice, yet protected by our laws (in America.) The whole idea that we have to prove it is genetic to some people for them to be behind us having equal rights frankly annoys me. As long as it is a consenting adult, and I am not abusing some power structure (boss, teacher, etc.) it really shouldn't matter.
And I don't care if someone wants to flip the finger or approve of being gay or lesbian. You don't have to like me or approve of my life. But when you feel your opinion should affect MY life by denying me the same rights you enjoy - MY life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, then I will fight you with activism or any way I legally can. And I don't need to flip the finger back at you, because I am laughing with joy for every bit of progress I have seen in my lifetime. And yeah, if my gaining equal rights annoys your bigotry, I admit I enjoy the salt in your wound. I should be above feeling that way, but nobody's perfect.
As for people being gay because it is cool. That is just an ignorant statment. If you knew how difficult it still is for many of us, you would realize how ridiculous this statment is. Being Gay Lesbian is one of the leading , if not the leading, reasons teens kill themselves. People still get fired, beaten, and kicked out of their families for being gay/ lesbian/ bi. I could go on about this, but I hope this is enough for people to get the point.
Things I NEVER thought possible in my lifetime have happened. Gay marriage, boy scouts, societal attitudes, military - it's astounding to me that I get to live to see these things.
As for activists. There are a lot of activists that people never hear about. They shouldn't all be lumped in together. I used to be active in the San Diego Gay and Lesbian Historical Society. There is the Log Cabin Republican Club. Sometimes, in any group, the loudest most obnoxious people get the most air time with the media. No group should be judged solely by that. Some of the people supposedly representing me make me cringe with embarrrasment. I know some African American Co-workers who expressed the same opinion to me on people like Al Sharpton supposedly representing them.
Activities. Straight people have similar celebrations like Mardi Graw that get pretty raunchy. If you are going to object, object to all of them. I think I went to the Fulton street thing years ago, or something close to it. Certainly not my thing. Too raunchy for me personally. But it was late at night and it was an adult crowd.
And again, the media harps on the wildest part of our community. Look at news media coverage of our Gay Lesbian etc. parades. They show the leather boys in their umm, backless chaps, and the wildest drag queens and the bar floats. But you never see all the Church organizations, the historical societies, the stamp clubs.....
Boy Scouts - If the Boy scouts want to become completely private, with no special status, money, or special benefits from the goverment, then I don't care who they exempt from their organization. But as long as they benefit from the government, then they should not be allowed to be exclusionary to gay people. And activism to this end gets my full support.
Hate Crimes - I actually do not support the idea of hate crimes. If you kill someone for their wallet or because they are gay, they are still just the same amount of dead. However, let's remember why hate crimes developed. It was to counteract unjustices coming from bigotry in our court system. I remember reading stories of gay people being beaten to death and the perpetraters getting light or no sentences. They would claim the person came on to them, so they had every right to beat them to death and they would get away with this defense!
Finally, as on another MA forum I am on, it is awesome to see so many people be supportive of gay rights. And when I say "you" in this post, I am talking about society in general- for the most part I am not referring to members of this forum.
Ok, this lesbian is getting off of her soapbox now. :soapbox:
It shouldn't matter. Freedom of religion is a choice, yet protected by our laws (in America.) The whole idea that we have to prove it is genetic to some people for them to be behind us having equal rights frankly annoys me. As long as it is a consenting adult, and I am not abusing some power structure (boss, teacher, etc.) it really shouldn't matter.
And I don't care if someone wants to flip the finger or approve of being gay or lesbian. You don't have to like me or approve of my life. But when you feel your opinion should affect MY life by denying me the same rights you enjoy - MY life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, then I will fight you with activism or any way I legally can. And I don't need to flip the finger back at you, because I am laughing with joy for every bit of progress I have seen in my lifetime. And yeah, if my gaining equal rights annoys your bigotry, I admit I enjoy the salt in your wound. I should be above feeling that way, but nobody's perfect.
As for people being gay because it is cool. That is just an ignorant statment. If you knew how difficult it still is for many of us, you would realize how ridiculous this statment is. Being Gay Lesbian is one of the leading , if not the leading, reasons teens kill themselves. People still get fired, beaten, and kicked out of their families for being gay/ lesbian/ bi. I could go on about this, but I hope this is enough for people to get the point.
Things I NEVER thought possible in my lifetime have happened. Gay marriage, boy scouts, societal attitudes, military - it's astounding to me that I get to live to see these things.
As for activists. There are a lot of activists that people never hear about. They shouldn't all be lumped in together. I used to be active in the San Diego Gay and Lesbian Historical Society. There is the Log Cabin Republican Club. Sometimes, in any group, the loudest most obnoxious people get the most air time with the media. No group should be judged solely by that. Some of the people supposedly representing me make me cringe with embarrrasment. I know some African American Co-workers who expressed the same opinion to me on people like Al Sharpton supposedly representing them.
Activities. Straight people have similar celebrations like Mardi Graw that get pretty raunchy. If you are going to object, object to all of them. I think I went to the Fulton street thing years ago, or something close to it. Certainly not my thing. Too raunchy for me personally. But it was late at night and it was an adult crowd.
And again, the media harps on the wildest part of our community. Look at news media coverage of our Gay Lesbian etc. parades. They show the leather boys in their umm, backless chaps, and the wildest drag queens and the bar floats. But you never see all the Church organizations, the historical societies, the stamp clubs.....
Boy Scouts - If the Boy scouts want to become completely private, with no special status, money, or special benefits from the goverment, then I don't care who they exempt from their organization. But as long as they benefit from the government, then they should not be allowed to be exclusionary to gay people. And activism to this end gets my full support.
Hate Crimes - I actually do not support the idea of hate crimes. If you kill someone for their wallet or because they are gay, they are still just the same amount of dead. However, let's remember why hate crimes developed. It was to counteract unjustices coming from bigotry in our court system. I remember reading stories of gay people being beaten to death and the perpetraters getting light or no sentences. They would claim the person came on to them, so they had every right to beat them to death and they would get away with this defense!
Finally, as on another MA forum I am on, it is awesome to see so many people be supportive of gay rights. And when I say "you" in this post, I am talking about society in general- for the most part I am not referring to members of this forum.
Ok, this lesbian is getting off of her soapbox now. :soapbox:
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The BSA elected to allow gay members (not adult leaders). That seems more inclusive, not more divisive.
The story is more complicated than that. Note that with males, homosexuality is more likely for those with more older brothers (presumably this particular phenomenon is due to womb environment effects, not genetics--and to the extent it's not genetic, evolution can't act on it). One theory is that, in evolutionary times, if you already have 4 sons (say), then it isn't clear which is better: A 5th son who might bear more children, or a 5th son who would not be likely to have children but might instead help raise the children of the other sons, improving those kids' survival prospects. You can simulate this and depending on what assumptions you make risk-wise, it can be beneficial to have a non-reproducing extra child. That child's genes do benefit (think in terms of the selfish gene) as each son is 50% similar to any other full brother, meaning the genes themselves are propagated. Meanwhile, for women, in evolutionary times it's unclear that homosexuality would have prevented a woman from being impregnated, given the likely nature of mating at the time.
There are other theories. To the extent that it's genetic, consider conditions like achondroplasia, which occur as a genetic mutation and would surely have reduced the chances of reproduction in evolutionary times. It's the nature of genetic mutation that such conditions will continue to occur despite being nonbeneficial from a reproductive success standpoint.
Of course homosexuality appears to be a complex phenomenon depending on genetics, prenatal development, and early childhood environment. There are many conditions for which a person may have a genetic predisposition that only manifests under certain environmental influences.
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
Whats selective about that?You claimed the BSA are the latest casualty of the activist gay movementand this movement has a divisive agenda. Then D-Dog called you out on it and hes being selective? Thats exactly what you said; there is no need for selectinganything from your post. The whole thing is based in ignorance and intolerance.
How can an all inclusive organization be divisive? It is the people who do not accept them that are divisive.
Your post does offend me, Manseau,but you have a right to that opinion. Justlike I have the right to my opinion that your opinion is pure bigotry.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Unless it's Nature's way of helping with overpopulation.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Given the topic of this thread, I have to ask: you do realize that the Folsom Street Fair is not a specifically gay venue? There's folks of all kinds there, and all orientations (including many many many straight people) and all variety of sexual interests. So is your issue with sexuality, or with homosexuality?
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
good catch. Yeah. Folsom.
