I wanna be fast

[Deathtrap101]

man that candle thing was harderthan i thought, i tried to stay perfectly relaxed and throw the punch as fast as i could and steady as i could and i must of threw like 60 punches and blew it out 5 times. I did it life 4 times wihtin the first 20 punches and than i was having a hell of a time... but ill keep doing it both hands everyday, feet too.

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Deathtrap101

man that candle thing was harderthan i thought, i tried to stay perfectly relaxed and throw the punch as fast as i could and steady as i could and i must of threw like 60 punches and blew it out 5 times. I did it life 4 times wihtin the first 20 punches and than i was having a hell of a time... but ill keep doing it both hands everyday, feet too.

Have you become faster?

/Yari

 

[sweeper]

baoquan, force is force. it doesn't matter the ratio of mass to acceleration a given amount of force is equal, that is to say a 20 pound object moving at 10 miles an hour requires as much force to stop as a 10 pound object moving at 20 miles an hour. So you have to gennerate more force to accelerate a given weight to a higher velocity in a given amount of time and to stop the punch you need to absorb more energy if the given object (fist) is traveling faster.

"slower heavier objects will deliver more force due to their inclination to keep moving.... which is why big slow guys generally hit "harder" than smaller faster guys."

this isn't realy true, an object moving half the speed of another object but having twice the mass will have an equal amount of enertia. So when a bigger guy hits harder it's because they actualy do generate more force than the small faster guy. look at it this way, say you are motovating a given mass (your arm, and just your arm) say the light guy's arm weighs 10 pounds and the big guys arm weighs 30 pounds, now lets say the little guy can accelerate his arm to 80 mph and the big guy can only accelerate it to 40 mph, that big guy will generate more force because he has more mass even though he's moving it at half the speed, however there is also the factor of follow through, you will generate more force by following through on your blows than by relaxing after contact..

 

[Baoquan]

yes, this is true (if objects are accelerating at same rate, but (as i understand it) the delivery of power to an object also relates to the third law..equal and opposite reaction.

[BTW..the two objects u stated above might have equal force, but vastly different kinetic energy..if KE=1/2 mass x velocity (2) then (1) 10/2 x 20(2) = 2000, and (2) 20/2 x 10(2) equals 1000. however KE falls away at a geometric rate when forces of acceleration are applied....].

If u punch a small object, it moves. you punch a big object, you move...the inclination of an object, in this case you, to stay in current frame of reference, relates to the force (mass x accel) applied in both directions. a big guy effecting the same force (in the arm) as a small guy (in the arm) will deliver more, because a small guy (having less mass) will move more than a big guy (having more mass) away from the opposing object, and thus power delivered forward is lessened as puncher moves away...
he has less inclination to maintain frame of reference, therefore forces of accelration have more detrimental effect on his velocity and therefore, kinetic energy (KE= 1/2 mass x velocity(2)).

same way you will throw a ball 50 meters when standing on the ground, but will throw it 20 and move backwards if you are standing on a skateboard....the force generated is the same, but delivery is different as defined by your inclination to stay in motion (or still).

force = force in a specific moment, but acceleration relates to time and punches aren't instantaneous.

This all relates to you point that

however there is also the factor of follow through, you will generate more force by following through on your blows than by relaxing after contact..

my point related to the ability of objects to "follow through", and acceleration on objects of equal force but differing mass.

i think this is all true..but i've been known to be wrong.

 

[ECYili]

yeah Deathtrap that's what usually happens. Your good for the first few then after that it's all down hill. Hint: don't think about punching faster or try too hard, just punch. It's good that your still doing it everyday. Alot of people get to frustrated and quit. Keep it up!

Dan

 

[sweeper]

Ok I see where we are disagreing, two objects with equal kenetic energy yet differing mass will react diffrently than two objects with the same momentum and differing mass, in the case of the kinetic energy scale the more massive object in a direct colision will generate more force where as in the case of momentum the force will be equal.

I don't think kinetic energy is a good method of measuring power in a fight. the reason is unless you can transfer 100% of that kenetic energy to your target you will not generate optimal force. measuring energy in terms of kinetic energy works well for high speed colisions where there isn't sufficiant time for objects to absorb energy by deforming (such as say a metiorite hitting the earths atmosphere at several thousand miles per hour) but it doesn't work well when calculating power in a fight because of the relativly low speed of the object's movement. a human's body is largely composed of water and with the exception of our skeletal structure we contain alot of liquid, as a result we absorb (relativly safely) kinetic energy at low speed colisions wich throws off the actual effects of that energy. That's why I think the force and momentum scales work better.

 

[Baoquan]

hmmm..agreed. Very good point.

coming back to the original piont, i think my dad says it best (and he don't know a damn thing about physics) -

"It's good to be big. It's better to be good. It's best to be big AND good."

good to meet someone who doesn't think physics and arts are exclusive occupations

Cheers

Bao

 

[sweeper]

yeah, I tihnk having some knowledge of physics can give you an unique perspective on martial arts, I think knowledge of physics and kinesiology can help out your understanding of proper technique.

 

[Baoquan]

totally. I have a friend who is a keneisiologist and athlete, who helped me a lot with both my MA and climbing..and her husband, who is an Ex-CFL tight end taught me how to train isotonics... made me better, faster, stronger!!

unfortunately, she went back to Canada to join the winter olympic team....

i hate it when that happens.

 

[Deathtrap101]

well today was either my 2nd or 3rd day of candle training.....i still cant put it out on command, the best i did was blew it out twice in 4 punches. But since yesterday i am a bit better, though i still cant blow it out with my left hand but ill keep doing it. i tired counting backwards from 100 with every punch i counted back one and i got to 25 and blew it out 4 times. after that it was hell....

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Deathtrap101

Now i am fairly fast(i think), but i still would like more advice on how to be faster. There are big guys out there who can punch pretty damn hard. Im pretty big compared to alot of guys my age (15yo 6' , 168lbs) and im in shape. What workouts can i do to be faster and become stronger, because FORCE=MASS X ACCELERATION. any response would be good, thanks.

:asian:

How fast you run doesn't necessarily mean you can punch 12 times a second.

Develop your CNS. That's a big factor. Then develop your speed physically (as in the muscles) with plyometrics and other drills.

 

[Roland]

In other words, stay relaxed, tension just slows you down!

Of course, speed is just an illusion anyway!

 

[Deathtrap101]

Well i stopped teh candle training for a while and i just go back to it once and a while just to see if i can do it. And now i can just about put out the flame on command.

Its nice to understand the physics of punches but now i realy could give a damn about the physics in a punch,lol. Just practice throwing hard 'fast' punches. Keep your arm relaxed, twist hip, keep your elbow in just straightening your arm as hard and fast as you can, keeping the biscep relaxed untill the peak of your punch and then pull it back.(i know im forgeting stuff and leaving out details, but hey! im tired)

 

[ECYili]

I'm not sure if I'm getting confused about what you wrote deathdrop but it sounds like to me that after you throw your punch, your snapping it back quiclky. If that is so then your not doing it correctly. What it sounds like your doing is "sucking" the flame out. you'll be able to tell by which way the falme is going when it goes out. What you want to do is blow the flame out with a thrust. So don't snap your arm back. But it still sounds like your definately on the right track by keeping your elbow down and into your body and snapping the waist. Don't forget to press your back heel in into the ground first to start your movement. Your hips will turn automaticaly and incress the speed and momentum.

Keep it up!!

Dan :asian:

 

[Samurai]

I simple way to become quicker is to CUT OUT THE EXCESS MOVEMENTS in a punch/kick/lock/etc.

For example: Do not start your punch from a "chambered hip" position but instead start the punch from a more extented position. I always aim my leadhand (Right side forward for me) at the other guys nose. That way I as blast him when it is open.

Doing the punch S-L-O-W will teach you what muscles are needed and what ones you can relax and not use. It is amazing how many muscles hold you back when you first try to punch.
Thanks
jeremy bays