How to fight back if someone pushes you down?

[msmitht]

To be specific you should learn the technical lift, the up kick (s), knee stomp and bicycle kicks first. All you can learn at a self defense class at your local BJJ school or in one of their classes.

 

[KangTsai]

I am a college girl and recently got into a situation (it didn't go very far but it kind of freaked me out) and I realized I have no upper body strength to force someone off me. I always assumed if it came to it I would be able to get out of a situation if I really wanted to (dumb I know).

Is there a move or trick for someone with a slight build to get out of this kind of situation and force someone off?

Thanks if you take the time to respond!

If you're simply talking about pushing someone to create distance, there are a plethora of very simple techniques (e.g. push kick to the thigh) that frankly, you can learn yourself. I too recommend you take a martial arts class.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Frankly, it's irresponsible to tell people to look at a video and let them think they'll be 'safe'. There are a lot of reasons we 'don't like' online videos, you cannot learn self defence from a video simple as. It creates a sense of false security as the viewer tries these things out on friends and family who of course aren't going to resist, there's no instructor to point out where you are going wrong and to make that little tweak which is going to be the difference between getting out of a move and not getting out.
'Physics' means nothing to someone being attacked, they need techniques they've trained until they are instinctive, that they know work because they've tried them on resisting opponents. Women need to be confident that what they learn will work, you do not get that through watching videos, quite honestly you stand better chance playing video games.

I have a question: Did you even watch the video I linked? Or did you see mention of an online course and immediately hit the reply button in order to berate me for even considering it? You assume the techniques in the video don't work when you have no idea what's in the video and quite frankly all the drawbacks you have talked about regarding learning from videos can apply to real life lessons too. For example:

1. Resistance. You say that friends and family aren't going to resist, but the exact same can be said of very nervous people in a self defense class. In fact, I would argue that strangers in a self defense class are more likely to hold back for fear of hurting someone they don't know and don't trust in an unfamiliar environment. And even if they do resist a lot they aren't going to use lethal intent as you would face in a real life situation.

2. No Instructor. You are naturally assuming that the instructor knows what they are talking about, but they might not be. Granted an instructor might be able to see what you are doing wrong, but a well explained and clear video can show you, not to mention that when it comes to self-defense techniques it's pretty obvious if it doesn't work, in which case you can go back to the video and watch it again.

3. A false sense of security. As I've already mentioned you can get this from a class just as easily as from a video. How do you know the techniques work? By testing them, and you can do this from a video just as easily as in a class. Simply find a training partner and see what happens.

Please note, I am not saying just watching videos is going to help you in self defense, but if you watch an instructional video and then practice the techniques shown with a partner, you get the same result as you would from a class, assuming the techniques in the video actually work. Now, if you watch the video and have an issue with the techniques shown, then I will happily listen, but this blind prejudice towards instructional videos and online courses is quite frankly ridiculous to my mind.

 

[KangTsai]

if you watch an instructional video and then practice the techniques shown with a partner, you get the same result as you would from a class, assuming the techniques in the video actually work.

That mostly depends on how well the video was produced. From all the technique videos I've watched, small but critical technique details are often missed out.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

The problem with his "concepts" are that they're overcomplicated, and "kung fu'd up" from wherever he originally got them. An eye poke from behind? Seriously?

For example his defense against a choke from behind was this;

Bjj's defenses against a rear choke from behind is this;

Bjj's defense comes from old school Judo. Our Kung Fu friend probably concocted that defense on his own, not putting much consideration into the variables. His ground fighting tactics (which is specifically what the OP was asking for) are laughable, and I'm being generous.

Irregardless, Tez is quite right, you really should learn this stuff from a qualified instructor, not a video. Additionally, there are no "tricks" to any of this. She would need to practice this stuff consistently over a span of time for them to serve her reliably in a real confrontation.

I can attest to the fact that a woman skilled in Bjj is a handful to deal with. The first person to ever choke me out in Bjj was a female purple belt about half my size, and she did it by being exceptionally good at escaping my top pressure.

Thanks for the reply. One thing I will say about the self defense techniques from Enter-shaolin is they require a good understanding of energy transfer and control, which is used a lot in Chinese Internal Martial Arts. These techniques takes a great deal of time to learn but once you have mastered the control of the energy, it doesn't matter how strong or big your opponent is because you negate their strength. Now, looking at the BJJ defense videos, the problem I have is you are expecting a smaller person to throw a much larger opponent. I don't practice BJJ so correct me if I'm wrong but I'd be amazed if you could use those moves on someone who is a lot bigger and stronger than you. Even in the video (granted the instructor is talking a lot), the instructor is bigger than his opponent and is getting out of breath using those moves. That first throw he does seems to use a lot of energy and strength to pull off, that a smaller or weaker person might not be able to.

 

[drop bear]

Wait if it is the individual not the art. Why don't videos work?

Just curious.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you I guess I should look into some martial arts courses in my area. I'm just not the most athletically gifted person and don't want to feel like an idiot there in a course that's probably mostly guys with a sporty background.

Don't worry too much about that. Most schools have a mix of athletic levels among beginners, and most students are very welcoming to new students.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thanks for the reply. One thing I will say about the self defense techniques from Enter-shaolin is they require a good understanding of energy transfer and control, which is used a lot in Chinese Internal Martial Arts. These techniques takes a great deal of time to learn but once you have mastered the control of the energy, it doesn't matter how strong or big your opponent is because you negate their strength. Now, looking at the BJJ defense videos, the problem I have is you are expecting a smaller person to throw a much larger opponent. I don't practice BJJ so correct me if I'm wrong but I'd be amazed if you could use those moves on someone who is a lot bigger and stronger than you. Even in the video (granted the instructor is talking a lot), the instructor is bigger than his opponent and is getting out of breath using those moves. That first throw he does seems to use a lot of energy and strength to pull off, that a smaller or weaker person might not be able to.

Those moves work quite well on a much larger person. We have very similar techniques in NGA, and I actually find them easier on a larger person than on someone my own size.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wait if it is the individual not the art. Why don't videos work?

Just curious.

::GRUMBLE::

 

[Hanzou]

Thanks for the reply. One thing I will say about the self defense techniques from Enter-shaolin is they require a good understanding of energy transfer and control, which is used a lot in Chinese Internal Martial Arts. These techniques takes a great deal of time to learn but once you have mastered the control of the energy, it doesn't matter how strong or big your opponent is because you negate their strength.

Didn't you say that you mastered these techniques by watching video?

Now, looking at the BJJ defense videos, the problem I have is you are expecting a smaller person to throw a much larger opponent. I don't practice BJJ so correct me if I'm wrong but I'd be amazed if you could use those moves on someone who is a lot bigger and stronger than you. Even in the video (granted the instructor is talking a lot), the instructor is bigger than his opponent and is getting out of breath using those moves. That first throw he does seems to use a lot of energy and strength to pull off, that a smaller or weaker person might not be able to.

It's the same principle found in the one armed shoulder throw in Judo;

And yes, a smaller person can definitely do it on a bigger person. Try it sometime.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Didn't you say that you mastered these techniques by watching video?



It's the same principle found in the one armed shoulder throw in Judo;

And yes, a smaller person can definitely do it on a bigger person. Try it sometime.

I said I was able to do them on someone providing resistance who was a lot stronger than myself. I would need to practice them for a long time to be able to do it in a real life situation.

 

[Steve]

lots of moves and tricks to get up. lots of moves and tricks to hold someone down.

If college you mean America then you should be able to get world class wrestling for basically nothing.

who do tend to know a bit about holding people down and getting back up.

Wrestling is more commonly available in high school. College can be more difficult.

 

[Tez3]

Did you even watch the video I linked?

yes I did

said of very nervous people in a self defense class

I'm not talking about going to a self defence class I'm talking about going to a BJJ class.

You are naturally assuming that the instructor knows what they are talking about, but they might not be.

Well yes, the classes I'm talking about do have very good instructors. If you noticed only you are talking about 'self defence classes', I'm talking about BJJ classes for a start. You can think I've been too hard on you but we are talking about something very serious here, people's lives and safety, this isn't the time for faffing around with things that may or may not work. I have little time for 'self defence' course for a number of reasons and I am not talking about them for the OP. I mentioned a specific style for a specific reason. Yes a good many other styles with teach you to defend yourself but I believe at this moment in time it's BJJ she needs.
I posted the BJJ videos which are NOT self defence videos by the way but advertising for BJJ clubs and systems, to show that there are classes out there that a woman will feel comfortable in so don't bother critiquing the techniques you see in them, that would be silly. Your comment likewise.

As a woman I've never felt out of place in a BJJ class, as an older woman I've been made to feel very welcome even when I've been the only female in the class of younger men. Not all were fit, not all hot shot BJJers, there were all standards of fitness and knowledge. There is nervousness to start with, there always will be when doing something new but you aren't thrown to the lions, you aren't pushed beyond what you can do just a little further and the satisfaction at every achievement even small ones is lovely.

If the OP could post up the area she's in there's many of us who can recommend good places to train BJJ in.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What ever you decide. make sure the school has a self-defense focus and perspective of teaching martial arts. Training for self-defense is not the same as training for sport. Those who train for self-defense will have additional training in things like awareness, recognizing intent. positioning (how not to place yourself in a vulnerable situation). Things like this tend to come up in discussion when the school trains martial arts from a self-defense perspective.

Martial arts is no different than anything else. Train for purpose. If you want to be good in Martial Art sport then train for sport. If you want to be good in martial art self defense then you train for self defense.

Whatever you do. Don't learn from a video. Get some face time with students and teachers. Many of them have stories about situations that can help you as well and that's on top of learning the martial arts.

 

[Steve]

Personally, I think any Bjj school would be great, and more is made about the self defense "focus" than reality warrants. You will be well served by training in a style that focuses on developing core strength, agility and a healthy lifestyle.

Most of the rest is to take common sense steps to avoid high risk behaviors.

The advantage BJJ has over other styles is the emphasis On ground fighting. If a guy pushes you down, you will be learning skills that directly address returning to your feet and/or defending yourself on the ground.

This street vs sport thing is overblown, and sport arts have many advantages over "street" arts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Personally, I think any Bjj school would be great, and more is made about the self defense "focus" than reality warrants. You will be well served by training in a style that focuses on developing core strength, agility and a healthy lifestyle.

Most of the rest is to take common sense steps to avoid high risk behaviors.

The advantage BJJ has over other styles is the emphasis On ground fighting. If a guy pushes you down, you will be learning skills that directly address returning to your feet and/or defending yourself on the ground.

This street vs sport thing is overblown, and sport arts have many advantages over "street" arts.

There is sometimes over-emphasis on that focus. However, if someone is wanting to learn to defend themselves and BJJ is a good fit for them, I'd suggest they go look for a BJJ school that deals with self-defense (I think most Gracie schools do?), because they'll be more likely to deal with scenario training that's for the street early on, rather than the octagon. Training to defend against BJJ attacks is mostly useful for competition, though this training will also help better develop the principles. Early on, it's good if the instructor actually focuses on teaching some defenses against the kinds of attacks a BJJ'er would know better than to try.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

yes I did



I'm not talking about going to a self defence class I'm talking about going to a BJJ class.



Well yes, the classes I'm talking about do have very good instructors. If you noticed only you are talking about 'self defence classes', I'm talking about BJJ classes for a start. You can think I've been too hard on you but we are talking about something very serious here, people's lives and safety, this isn't the time for faffing around with things that may or may not work. I have little time for 'self defence' course for a number of reasons and I am not talking about them for the OP. I mentioned a specific style for a specific reason. Yes a good many other styles with teach you to defend yourself but I believe at this moment in time it's BJJ she needs.
I posted the BJJ videos which are NOT self defence videos by the way but advertising for BJJ clubs and systems, to show that there are classes out there that a woman will feel comfortable in so don't bother critiquing the techniques you see in them, that would be silly. Your comment likewise.

As a woman I've never felt out of place in a BJJ class, as an older woman I've been made to feel very welcome even when I've been the only female in the class of younger men. Not all were fit, not all hot shot BJJers, there were all standards of fitness and knowledge. There is nervousness to start with, there always will be when doing something new but you aren't thrown to the lions, you aren't pushed beyond what you can do just a little further and the satisfaction at every achievement even small ones is lovely.

If the OP could post up the area she's in there's many of us who can recommend good places to train BJJ in.

Ok, I misread. So you would choose a BJJ class that focused on self defense (as opposed to sport or fitness) over a specialised self defense course? Maybe I should give BJJ a try, even though the school I'm with practices dog style kung fu, which is ground fighting focusing more on take-downs and holds using your legs rather than your arms.

 

[Steve]

There is sometimes over-emphasis on that focus. However, if someone is wanting to learn to defend themselves and BJJ is a good fit for them, I'd suggest they go look for a BJJ school that deals with self-defense (I think most Gracie schools do?), because they'll be more likely to deal with scenario training that's for the street early on, rather than the octagon. Training to defend against BJJ attacks is mostly useful for competition, though this training will also help better develop the principles. Early on, it's good if the instructor actually focuses on teaching some defenses against the kinds of attacks a BJJ'er would know better than to try.

That's fine. I think the idea that it must be "self defense" oriented is overstated. Not that it isn't a valid point, but really more that the distance from sport to self defense is a short one. Shorter. I think, than the distance between " self defense oriented " and self defense, in some cases.

 

[Hanzou]

There is sometimes over-emphasis on that focus. However, if someone is wanting to learn to defend themselves and BJJ is a good fit for them, I'd suggest they go look for a BJJ school that deals with self-defense (I think most Gracie schools do?), because they'll be more likely to deal with scenario training that's for the street early on, rather than the octagon. Training to defend against BJJ attacks is mostly useful for competition, though this training will also help better develop the principles. Early on, it's good if the instructor actually focuses on teaching some defenses against the kinds of attacks a BJJ'er would know better than to try.

Even training against a Bjjer is good for learning how to escape from under someone larger than you, maybe even better since a Bjjer will know how to keep you in that position and apply top pressure. A side mount is a side mount whether you're doing sport or self defense. The only thing missing from sport practice would be the striking component. However, if you're really good at escaping positions, you can really learn strike defense in your spare time. The main thing is learning how to escape those positions, which a sport school can teach just as well as a school based in self defense.

Again, I can personally attest to how good women become at Bjj escapes after just a few months of practice. The fact that they tend to be smaller forces them to be more agile and be better at escapes and counters, whereas larger males tend to stand their ground and push back, trying to establish top position, and be more aggressive.

I think you as an Aikidoka would appreciate that. Personally as a larger male, I always envied the smaller practitioner. I really think they end up being better in the art in the long run.

 

[Tez3]

Ok, I misread. So you would choose a BJJ class that focused on self defense (as opposed to sport or fitness) over a specialised self defense course? Maybe I should give BJJ a try, even though the school I'm with practices dog style kung fu, which is ground fighting focusing more on take-downs and holds using your legs rather than your arms.

'Specialised' self defence course which are on for only so many weeks are a waste of time and money. The participants learn x amount of techniques per week which they promptly forget because they aren't practised repeatedly so that they become instinctive. They are usually more complicated techniques than non martial arts people can take in. They simply don't remember the techniques let long try to remember how they went when under stress.

I chose BJJ that has self defence techniques for the OP for specific reason, that she asked for techniques/tricks to get someone off her. Unless you are a young, lighter weight woman you can't imagine the horror of being pinned down by a man lying on you, trying to be intimate with you. Knowing that even in that position she isn't helpless and can get herself out of it makes a huge difference. At this moment she doesn't want takedowns, kicks, punches and holds, she wants something that will give her confidence in a similar situation to the one she found herself in. However by taking up self defence BJJ class I hope she will go on to learn other things which will give her even more confidence, strength and I hope enjoyment of training ( it is addictive because apart from anything else it's such good fun). If after training for self defence the sport appeals then it's all good.

I'd suggest they go look for a BJJ school that deals with self-defense

This is why I posted up the links to BJJ self defence, not for a critique of BJJ techniques lol.