How to fight back if someone pushes you down?

[Gerry Seymour]

That's fine. I think the idea that it must be "self defense" oriented is overstated. Not that it isn't a valid point, but really more that the distance from sport to self defense is a short one. Shorter. I think, than the distance between " self defense oriented " and self defense, in some cases.

I can agree with that. There's less difference - especially in the long run - between a sport-oriented BJJ school, for instance, and one that maintains more of a SD orientation. So long as neither wanders too far off to one side (SD school losing the focus on testing against a resisting opponent, which appears to be a key part of BJJ, or sport school getting too focused on preparing for the test of the competition and losing some of the functionality of the art beyond competition). I think the difference is especially small when we speak of BJJ, because its roots are on both sides of that spectrum, keeping it fairly well centered.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Personally, I think any Bjj school would be great, and more is made about the self defense "focus" than reality warrants. You will be well served by training in a style that focuses on developing core strength, agility and a healthy lifestyle.

Most of the rest is to take common sense steps to avoid high risk behaviors.

The advantage BJJ has over other styles is the emphasis On ground fighting. If a guy pushes you down, you will be learning skills that directly address returning to your feet and/or defending yourself on the ground.

This street vs sport thing is overblown, and sport arts have many advantages over "street" arts.

I agree do people really if a random drunk attacked a world champion boxer or kickboxer that the fighter would lose just because they fight in a ring

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Even training against a Bjjer is good for learning how to escape from under someone larger than you, maybe even better since a Bjjer will know how to keep you in that position and apply top pressure. A side mount is a side mount whether you're doing sport or self defense. The only thing missing from sport practice would be the striking component. However, if you're really good at escaping positions, you can really learn strike defense in your spare time. The main thing is learning how to escape those positions, which a sport school can teach just as well as a school based in self defense.

Again, I can personally attest to how good women become at Bjj escapes after just a few months of practice. The fact that they tend to be smaller forces them to be more agile and be better at escapes and counters, whereas larger males tend to stand their ground and push back, trying to establish top position, and be more aggressive.

I think you as an Aikidoka would appreciate that. Personally as a larger male, I always envied the smaller practitioner. I really think they end up being better in the art in the long run.

Oh, I have no issue with that, Hanzou. My point was that a beginner, especially, will learn usable defensive techniques faster if they are not trying to deal with the skill of someone who specifically knows how to stop them. I don't know how most BJJ schools train (okay, not sure I know much about how ANY of them train ), but in most styles a starting focus on self-defense usually leads to teaching a few simple, repeatable techniques that wouldn't come into play against a skilled opponent, because they wouldn't commit the common errors. So, I can teach a student how to off-balance an average person who has them down pretty quickly, but that same technique won't work on someone with a year (or probably less) BJJ, because they'll avoid giving the positions an untrained person would give. I'd expect what works on a BJJ person to mostly work on untrained people, but will take more learning. That's the primary advantage at the beginning of an instructor taking a self-defense approach to the art - any art. After a year or so (at the most), I'd expect SD-oriented BJJ looks a lot like good sport-oriented BJJ, if both are true to the full curriculum.

 

[Tez3]

One thing to remember, that on this thread we are looking to help one lass who wants to learn something specific, we should try to help rather than debate 'sports v self defence' etc etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree do people really if a random drunk attacked a world champion boxer or kickboxer that the fighter would lose just because they fight in a ring

Using a world champion ANYTHING in that sentence is beyond the point. For good combat sport (I refer to sport that doesn't lose sight of effectiveness), a successful fighter at any level should be able to deal with common empty-hand attacks. The only limitations would be with sports like boxing, where they don't deal with getting tackled so might have difficulty there, and perhaps with grappling-only sports whose exponents might tend to train in ways that leave them inordinately exposed to strikes.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Using a world champion ANYTHING in that sentence is beyond the point. For good combat sport (I refer to sport that doesn't lose sight of effectiveness), a successful fighter at any level should be able to deal with common empty-hand attacks. The only limitations would be with sports like boxing, where they don't deal with getting tackled so might have difficulty there, and perhaps with grappling-only sports whose exponents might tend to train in ways that leave them inordinately exposed to strikes.

Maybe not tackles but boxers do get clinched and do learn how to work out of the clinch or how to hit from the clinch. Obviously not as much as wrestling or judo but they do deal with clinch work

 

[Tez3]

boxers do get clinched and do learn how to work out of the clinch

Yeah the ref tells them to break it up.

and this helps the OP how?

 

[Hanzou]

Some basic stuff to help the OP until she gets into a school:
Basic mount escape:

If you have problems with it, check out Rickson Gracie's breakdown of it;

Hip escape drills:

You can find the various applications for the hip escape on youtube.

 

[Steve]

One thing to remember, that on this thread we are looking to help one lass who wants to learn something specific, we should try to help rather than debate 'sports v self defence' etc etc.

Agreed. I only bring it up to suggest it's not that big a deal, and if she finds a good BJJ school, it really isn't that big a deal if it's sport or street. The self defense applications can be learned after the basics. And it's not as big a leap as some would imply.

 

[Jenna]

I am a college girl and recently got into a situation (it didn't go very far but it kind of freaked me out) and I realized I have no upper body strength to force someone off me. I always assumed if it came to it I would be able to get out of a situation if I really wanted to (dumb I know).

Is there a move or trick for someone with a slight build to get out of this kind of situation and force someone off?

Thanks if you take the time to respond!

Hey there Do not know if you are still around or got your answer?? Some people here have given good practical advice and suggestions. I would not repeat what is said, only it sound to me that you maybe feel your confidence overall has taken a knock from this? I imagine this can only be made worse that the person who did this on you was or is a friend. This could feel like a sort of double blow maybe. I know people this can cause them to question their selves at some levels. You have supportive friends there with you?? You know I think you are brave and I think you are awesome to post this here, because you know there are always other girls in similar situations that wonder oh goodness what do I do now to stop this happening. Thank you for posting. I do not have much to add only there are lot of ways for you to gain back the confidence that is yours as a young woman that you deserve to have and to keep for always. Physical training of any kind will help yes, does not have even to be fancy martial arts to make you in some way unhurtable, can be just doing a little fitness routine or do a few little things in your college gym or a dance class or jogging or whatever, and but mostly I would just want to urge you to take this incident in context of your life as an entirety and not allow it to define anything too much about you. Please let us know how you get on and what you make of it all and what you decide. ANd anyway, you are not just somehumanperson, you are awesomehumanperson A bientot, Jxxxx

 

[Kickboxer101]

I am a college girl and recently got into a situation (it didn't go very far but it kind of freaked me out) and I realized I have no upper body strength to force someone off me. I always assumed if it came to it I would be able to get out of a situation if I really wanted to (dumb I know).

Is there a move or trick for someone with a slight build to get out of this kind of situation and force someone off?

Thanks if you take the time to respond!

Sort of off topic but did you get the police involved even if it didnt go far it's still assault

 

[Kickboxer101]

Thank you I guess I should look into some martial arts courses in my area. I'm just not the most athletically gifted person and don't want to feel like an idiot there in a course that's probably mostly guys with a sporty background.

I wouldn't worry about that these days there's plenty of woman into martial arts and not all sporty guys either. In my experience the guys who do martial arts aren't that sporty if they were they'd be doing their own sports instead of martial arts. I know that doesn't apply all the time and sure there may be some sporty guys but even if they are if your at a good school it shouldn't be a problem

 

[Juany118]

Welcome somehumanperson and I would also second Tez with one addition. Try different arts/self defense methods, then pick the one that feels right to you. Any method of self defense isn't just about learning physical techniques, it's also about how your personality and mind mesh with them. Some people don't do well with grappling heavy arts because getting that close is uncomfortable and thy never truly overcome it. So find the school/art/method and teacher that "fits", that just feels right. That is, imo, an important and often overlooked portion of learning to defend oneself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe not tackles but boxers do get clinched and do learn how to work out of the clinch or how to hit from the clinch. Obviously not as much as wrestling or judo but they do deal with clinch work

That's why I didn't use a clinch as the example. The physics of a clinch aren't the same as someone making a stupid, unskilled tackling attempt to get you down so you can't move while they hit you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Agreed. I only bring it up to suggest it's not that big a deal, and if she finds a good BJJ school, it really isn't that big a deal if it's sport or street. The self defense applications can be learned after the basics. And it's not as big a leap as some would imply.

This is true of BJJ, by all reports.

 

[Tez3]

Try different arts/self defense methods, then pick the one that feels right to you

If you want to train self defence rather than just the thing you want to know how to get out of, I'd add. My answer of BJJ was specific to the situation and the question asked by the OP. If she wants to go on and train self defence then yes have a look around but for the specific answer to the specific question I'd still say BJJ.

 

[Ademadis]

Hi OP, late to the party but hope everything's ok!

There's a lot of good advice here to go over and I have nothing to really add, only thing I want to repeat is the importance of actually attending regular martial arts classes. There are no 'tricks', it's all mentality and technique. Martial arts and self defence is in reality incredibly hard to learn (initially, I've not yet met a single person that can't improve somehow), it's so much easier if you have a class assisting your learning experience and a good teacher who can constantly push and expand your knowledge. Yes watch videos, but apply them with the nuances and mastery you gain in full classes.

Good luck! If you ever want to discuss any techniques or ask a question you can find us all here

Extra:
Also, with regards to the incident; Whatever this friend did to you it wasn't 'bants' and it wasn't right. You didn't deserve it and he had no justified reason to put you in that position, it's unacceptable. If he ever does anything like it again tell someone and raise hell, you are COMPLETELY in the right to do so.
Us at MT, your friends, family and the law are all on your side. Always remember that.

 

[Tez3]

Extra:
Also, with regards to the incident; Whatever this friend did to you it wasn't 'bants' and it wasn't right. You didn't deserve it and he had no justified reason to put you in that position, it's unacceptable. If he ever does anything like it again tell someone and raise hell, you are COMPLETELY in the right to do so.
Us at MT, your friends, family and the law are all on your side. Always remember that.

I wish I could do more than just 'agree' to this, it's the best thing I've read for a long while. thank you.

 

[drop bear]

Oh, I have no issue with that, Hanzou. My point was that a beginner, especially, will learn usable defensive techniques faster if they are not trying to deal with the skill of someone who specifically knows how to stop them. I don't know how most BJJ schools train (okay, not sure I know much about how ANY of them train ), but in most styles a starting focus on self-defense usually leads to teaching a few simple, repeatable techniques that wouldn't come into play against a skilled opponent, because they wouldn't commit the common errors. So, I can teach a student how to off-balance an average person who has them down pretty quickly, but that same technique won't work on someone with a year (or probably less) BJJ, because they'll avoid giving the positions an untrained person would give. I'd expect what works on a BJJ person to mostly work on untrained people, but will take more learning. That's the primary advantage at the beginning of an instructor taking a self-defense approach to the art - any art. After a year or so (at the most), I'd expect SD-oriented BJJ looks a lot like good sport-oriented BJJ, if both are true to the full curriculum.

Nah. The advanced move is just the beginner move done better.

 

[Juany118]

If you want to train self defence rather than just the thing you want to know how to get out of, I'd add. My answer of BJJ was specific to the situation and the question asked by the OP. If she wants to go on and train self defence then yes have a look around but for the specific answer to the specific question I'd still say BJJ.

Tez, the only reason I said what I did is because I know some people are completely twitchy about in close...even if they know the techniques they panic and as I sometimes say "vapor lock" when it comes to physical techniques. So if it is as simple as a matter as you say, just addressing a particular situation, I recommend the use of tools.

Now mayhaps this attitude only applies in a place like the US...(I don't know if OC, https://www.amazon.com/Comtech-Stinger-Keating-Re-designed-Manipulator/dp/B006U4CPUS, and other such tools are legal elsewhere). I have just personally experienced (yes only anecdotal) that techniques from any specific MA only work if you really study it and/or practice it AND even if it's simply study one technique it has to "fit". Example I know cops who only know wrist locks, then I know cops who we call "hat holders" (not sure if that has meaning in GB or not) because even getting in that close to do a wrist lock, after years of confrontation, is beyond them. Thing is that technique has to "fit" and some people just don't fit with grappling. So if it doesn't fit or you can't do the training to overcome your natural reaction train with a tool.