hand conditioning side effects

Discussion in 'Chinese Martial Arts - General' started by dapidmini, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. dapidmini

    dapidmini White Belt

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    I'm planning to restart hand conditioning by punching (mildly at first) a canvas bag filled with rice.. but before that I'd like to know if the routine will have a bad side effect to my hands after some time. I will also tape my wrist when I punch the bag (as suggested by some people) to prevent injuries to my wrist though.. I heard that the side effects will only detectable after a very long time and certain age..
     
  2. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    None really. Get some jow from a reliable provider to deal with any bruising and to just in general for before & after practice. But the method I learned was repitition, not hitting hard. Provided you make the strike with proper alignment to begin with you should be ok. Your milage may vary.

    BUT MOST IMPORTANT... make sure you have qualified instruction before starting anything.

    Sent from my Thunderbolt on Tapatalk. Excuse the auto-correct spelling errors.
     
  3. Pedantix

    Pedantix Yellow Belt

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    We condition our knuckles for fore-nuckle karate strikes and boxing and... pisiform, i think its called (the small protruding bone at the bottom of the hand on the pinky side, which is what we use for our shuto, or knife-hand strike) on a makiwara board 3 times a week. I've been doing this for about a year and a half now, starting obviously pretty lightly and working up from there. from what I understand and have seen, if done right, it builds a calloused outer skin and deposits calcium on your bones, which actually increases the size and strength of your knuckles. As far as long term side effects, the only thing I can think of is maybe in increased chance of arthritis developing in you knuckle joints? but other people at my dojo have been doing this much longer than I have and my sensei has done it for many many years and I have never heard anyone say anything about it aside from the positive. I think protecting the wrists is definitely a good idea, and if you have the means to get guidance from a trainer in your area first, thats never a bad thing to consider.
     
  4. WC_lun

    WC_lun Senior Master

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    Important thing is to understad what it is you are doing, and know when you are doing something wrong. That takes a qualified instructor. Repitition is the key, not power for the training you are talking about. Proper alignment is a MUST.

    I don't understand taping the wrist if your goal is conditioning. That is part of a strike, is it not? Strike with proper alignment and form and it isn't an issue. Do not strike with those things in place and the best your strikes can be is as strong as your weak wrist. It is like having a really deadly bullet in a gun that misfires. Conditioning for strikes don't begin or end with the hands.

    When I was younger I trained with some very bad advice. Now I have authritis in my knuckles. A couple of fingers on my right hand also have mild nerve damage. Just make sure you get good instruction.
     
  5. ilhe4e12345

    ilhe4e12345 Green Belt

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    i talked to my sifu about this. He told me that its more important to do it the right way...just becuase you can punch through a bucket of ball bearings doesnt mean your doing it right....Slow and Steady is the key. Proper execution of the punch or strike is always better then doing it as hard as you can.....

    He has some minor nerve damage in his pinky due to years ago not listening to his sifu...since then he has always done it the proper way. Work on the right way, dont get to carried away. He has me doing it 3 months out of the year then for the rest of the year work on something else. I am currently finished with y 3 month plan, as i started back in August. I tell you this, at first you dont really notice or feel a difference, but then towards the end of the 3rd month you begin to feel your hands being "harder". I never punched more then 30 percent when i was training on the sand bags. NEVER....

    Happy Training :)
     
  6. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    I cannot speak for any other striking method , but if you are striking using the correct Wing Chun method then you don't need to do any thing to your wrist or hands , just punch properly.
     
  7. DaleDugas

    DaleDugas My door is always open.

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    Like many of my brothers who have already posted. You need to be taught a program safely. Doing it yourself without being taught could lead you with nerve damage or worse, loss of use. I have been training my hands for over 20 years and have no ill effects.

    I use herbal liniments and internal herbs to ensure no ill effects.

    Let me know how I can ever be of service to anyone here on the board.
     
  8. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Ive always used Brick Walls. I am patient, and am still not using Full Power. Conditioning is like lifting Weights. Your Brain doesnt really know the difference between 10kg and 30kg, in terms of how it adapts.

    EDIT: This is Instructed, mind You. I didnt just start bashing a wall :)
     
  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Exactly.

    What I found amazing when it came to hand conditioning in Sanda was that you were listening for a particular sound and without that you were going to hurt yourself, and we were using trees and walls. But without a shifu I would never have know that.

    Recommendation to the OP...talk to Dale
     
  10. jedtx88

    jedtx88 Yellow Belt

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    What about good old fashioned knuckle pushups?
     
  11. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Those are great too!!

    However, while they do build the bones of the hand, it's not the same as conditioning with impact.

    Do both, with proper instruction.
     
  12. David43515

    David43515 Master Black Belt

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    Recommendation to the OP...talk to Dale[/QUOTE]

    That`s exactly what I was going to say. Dale knows his stuff, and he`s also a reliable source for great Jow. That`s important in the longrun.
     
  13. DaleDugas

    DaleDugas My door is always open.

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    Let me know how I can be of service to the OP and any well else interested in Iron Palm/Iron Hand training.
     
  14. Dit Da Dave

    Dit Da Dave White Belt

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    The conditioning that i do is very similar with the canvas bag, but i started with mung beans (much like an Iron Palm progression). But my suggestion are just what worked best for myself. I only do knuckle conditioning in the colder months of the year. (to keep knuckles from flaking/skin to shed) also i don't use Dit Da Jow for knuckle hardening (but used it in conjunction for obvious healing management). OHC (Oriental Herb Company) makes a good IRON FIST liniment for hardening bone for external conditioning (i also use this liniment on shins/radial/ulnar bones) a liniment like this is paramount in your conditioning regiment. again, this is just my personal experience with knuckle conditioning.

    but the other guys on this thread are spot on about proper instruction and proper technique. If you do not treat your hands properly you wont be able to sign your name on a check in very little time.
     
  15. DaleDugas

    DaleDugas My door is always open.

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    OTC has very simple formulas that are very basic in nature.

    There Iron Fist is rather lacking in certain herbs which make it a superior Iron Fist liniment.

    I can help anyone seeking the strongest liniments at the best prices.

    I will beat any other competitiors pricing, on all herbs and Dit Da Jow raw herbs especially.
     
  16. rickster

    rickster Purple Belt

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    Why is it that some people in martial arts believe they have to condition the hands, shins, or feet?

    If you have to condition these areas with having to continuously apply an ointment for a long duration of time, what purpose can it truly gain?

    I don’t care if you were instructed by the Grand Puba of all Conditioning Instruction and you are using the Grand X Ointment, you will still suffer long term problems.

    In addition, all of this is thrown out the window if you lack proper methods.
    A conditioned area is like a sword. Sure, it can be forged better than others using the sword, but if one cannot properly swing that sword, what good is the weapon?

    Or if one has forged it and can swing it, and they come across someone who shoots them, what good was it then?

    I knew a martial artist who had his hands, forearms, and shins conditioned well. Upon a scuff on a highway, he got shot and died. All of this training went out of the window because he lost track of one thing-the mentality of how to deal with altercations.
     
  17. blindsage

    blindsage Master of Arts

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    The only conclusion to be drawn from your statement is that no one should bother training in martial arts at all, by your reasoning at least.
     
  18. rickster

    rickster Purple Belt

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    No. Being a martial artist is more than "conditioning a certain area"

    It is this extreme focus of the area which seems to draw attention and at the same time, lesson the degree of study for other areas.

    For sure, a martial artist will condition themselves likewise to other people in other physical fields.

    But where will the line be drawn for this conditioning?

    For example, a football player will train and/or "condition" themself in their field.

    But after many years of rigorous conditioning, they retire and age catches up to this rigorous training.

    As for a martial artist, if they are going into some type of hardcore fighting competition, like people in Thailand (who by the way do this to try and improve from a level of poverty), then yes, conditioning is a must
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  19. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

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    I didn't get that. Instead, I interpreted his statements as "if you don't know how to throw a punch, and don't know how to avoid altercations, then hand/shin/foot conditioning isn't very useful."

    I may be wrong, of course.
     
  20. blindsage

    blindsage Master of Arts

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    I'm not a fan of iron palm type training but the way your first post was worded could be applied to any part of MA training, speed, strength, forms, drills, etc. If it isn't accompanied by "proper methods". Why single out this particular area?123
     

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