We teach forms, beginning first advance later
The teacher knows what forms the student is ready for. Also depends on what depth the sifu is teaching. Just forms or forms and applications
Yes
How is this different from a belt system, then? In TKD, when you've completed the first form, you are invited to test, and then after being tested on the first form you get your belt that signals you're ready for the 2nd form.
An example that comes to mind is Modern Army Combatives (MAC). You learn a series of techniques, then move on to the next level (4 levels). Testing is based on mastering the particular parts of the overall training process. It seems that you would observe in class whatever promotion standard that you set. For example, mastery of form one and X techniques, then they move on to form two and y techniques, etc.
I partially disagree. I belive some old forms were exactly performance art. a spectacle to watch to gather a crowd at which time you could then sell your snake oil medicine. This is what I remember being told but I wasn't in China so I can't say for certain. I would also point out that modern Wushu is very much all about performance art.
I focus on posture, balance, and coordination. We have forms, but I don’t teach them in the regular beginner class because I don’t believe there is any point to teaching forms to somebody who can’t stand up straight or who doesn’t have a foot. The forms are important, but only if all the foundational basics are being applied while doing them. I think of forms training in steps. The first one is a long basic form with no kicks that has a looping 2 person form contained within. When they get that and can work the 2 person part then we can move on to the more complicated forms. We have a Southern CMA family style so advanced students usually help newer students in the forms class. I’m lucky because many of my training brothers have been with me for over 25 years. I readily defer to them where they are more skilled than I am in certain aspects of our system. The newer students essentially have 6 teachers that rotate in and out in addition to having me there. We all learned the forms in the same order. That order is just by default because the subsequent forms just get longer and more difficult.
This may be true, but would not be representative of the training forms from traditional martial arts. A school may choose to keep some of this kind of thing within their curriculum to be used at publicity events (if they choose to take part in such things) but I would imagine they would be a very small part of the curriculum.
Modern Wushu is its own animal. It was created at the direction of the Chinese Communist Government specifically to be a cultural performance and competition/performance art form deliberately separated from the older combat methods. It was never inteneded to be a viable combat method even though it was based on a mixture of older combat methods. In the early days of Modern Wushu (the 1950s) it was probably much closer to the original combat methods on which it was based and there would have been a greater deal of viable material within that performance art. However, today's Modern Wushu has continued to push the envelope in extreme techniques (crowd-pleasing, not combat-effective) and one would be hard-pressed to present a believable argument that Modern Wushu continues to be an effective fighting method even though its athletes can be impressive to watch in the same way that a gymnastics floor routine is impressive to watch. It is deliberately a performance art and has been since it's inception.
What you describe seems to me to be consistent with Japanese Koryu martial arts in particular. My experience in the Chinese methods is very different. We do not try to hold the system consistent with the vision of a specific individual innovator. At least not for its own sake. We actually view our methodology as being extremely functional, which provides its own motivation for keeping that consistency. But within the greater methodology lies a lot of room to develop one's own training approach, as long as it remains consistent with the principles and foundational practices upon which the method is built.
Right. Most of the traditional Okinawan forms (I'm not versed in CMA) are compilations of techniques accrued from a variety of masters and consolidated with modifications into a particular master's style. In this regard, there is no such a thing as a beginning or advanced kata. However, since some are "easier" to perform than others they are often taught in order of perceived difficulty. But they were not designed to be taught that way, rather arranged that way after the fact. But there are exceptions such as the pinans (1-5) which were designed as a curriculum and found their way to Japan and Korea.
This may be true in some CMA, I have no idea of CMA form history, but is NOT true in Okinawan MA where the art and forms were taught in a more secretive fashion during its formative years.
Most of karate's kata, i.e. Chinto, Kusanku, Wansu and others, were NOT designed by those masters, but by their students. These students (masters themselves) designed a form that were representative of their teachers' style. "These are the kind of techniques Chinto like to use and I'll name the kata after him. Wansu emphasized these concepts in his fighting as illustrated in this form I arranged." And so on. And in doing so, the new master adapted these techniques to fit within his concepts and methods of execution. So, the forms are a representation of another master's personal style infused with his own. The preceding masters were not worshipped, but respected and honored.
True, but having a template to work off of makes things easier and preserves some concepts and combination threads that may otherwise be lost over the span of time.
That ten roads is the longest "beginner" form I've ever seen. Great control/balance shown in the advanced form.
I should show you our Chuit Yap Bo, beginner form.
Tan Tui is a ubiquitous longfist form in CMA.
I will like to see it.
I think it's a distinction without a real difference. Just don't tell the Wing Chun guys that just because they don't use belts that they still have a rank system. They just don't test ad nauseum like us tkd guys do.
Because each road has been repeated 3 times right-left-right. If it's only repeat 1 time, it can be 1/3 length short.
Very interesting. Thank you for posting.
