How to introduce unorthodox study into a commercialized dojo, as a student?

[GreenieMeanie]

I attend a self-defense dojo ran by an instructor certified in an international Krav Maga Brand, and another international brand, which is essentially FMA boxing, body manipulation, and various weapons under a different name.

Overall, the instruction is good. They know the techniques, the instructors know why the techniques are done, along with some other martial arts knowledge. However, I’m concerned no one understands the greater theory behind what they’re doing, except that “there are no rules in a street fight.” When talking to older more experienced students, I get the impression that they’d never heard of FMA until attending these classes.

When doing basic FMA partner drills with knives, it was insisted that I focus on cutting. My background is primarily contemporary street-focused systems, and so I know that in most situations, an average knife is not hefty or sharp enough to preform a fight-ending slice. You get a cut if it‘s available, but you’re really just using the knife to pry your way into a stab. I know enough about FMA, to realize that the slicing moves derive from an assumption of bludgeons and heavy field blades. I was told not to worry about it, and just do the drill as instructed.

I’ve had the opportunity to study Shiv Works, prison fighting, revolver work, anti-abduction stuff, WW2 combatives, and then some. Ideally, I’d like to have a study group going. I feel like it would be completely new to them. I think they understand and respect that I’ve had previous, diverse training. Yet, I suspect the students and instructors are, for now, more interested in my assimilation than my input. But I don’t know if that’s the general mentality, or if I simply need to bridge the communication gap. I have a good relationship with all the instructors.

Does anyone think I can convince them? If so, how should I approach the head instructor?

 

[hoshin1600]

My impression from what I read...
YOU DONT.
It sounds to me like you have some big ideas on how you want to do things different. It's not your school. If you want to start a group outside of the school or try to start your own school , sure go for it. Are they trying to get you to assimilate? Absolutely yes. The instructor has created an invironment where he can pass on the things HE HAS LEARNED. The class has a harmony and a flow. It sounds like you may be bringing chaos to the mix, trying to pass on the things that YOU HAVE LEARNED.
The school doesn't exist for you to teach. It not a vehicle for you to enlighten people. The students job is to collect the information presented and practice it. If you want to pass to others what you know, you need to start your own thing.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I've seen it a number of times and it never ends well.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

My impression from what I read...
YOU DONT.
It sounds to me like you have some big ideas on how you want to do things different. It's not your school. If you want to start a group outside of the school or try to start your own school , sure go for it. Are they trying to get you to assimilate? Absolutely yes. The instructor has created an invironment where he can pass on the things HE HAS LEARNED. The class has a harmony and a flow. It sounds like you may be bringing chaos to the mix, trying to pass on the things that YOU HAVE LEARNED.
The school doesn't exist for you to teach. It not a vehicle for you to enlighten people. The students job is to collect the information presented and practice it. If you want to pass to others what you know, you need to start your own thing.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I've seen it a number of times and it never ends well.

I use the word “assimilate” for a specific reason. The best schools I’ve seen acted as a vehicle, not only to pass on knowledge from instructors, but also absorb knowledge from students with a unique perspective. The cadre did not care what was practiced, so much as retention of principles. If a student had an experience, which contributed to the lesson, they encouraged it.

My interest is not to do things differently so much, but add to it. I don‘t think most of the students would know where to begin. If it’s accepted at all, it would be a small study thing during something like open gym. I’m not trying to ”start my own thing,” but perfect more technical concepts with like-minded people.

 

[skribs]

If you already have a good relationship with your head instructor, then I would just talk to him. Let him know that you have experience in this stuff and ask if he wants you to bring in what you know from outside.

But if you go at him with the same attitude you seem to have in this thread, that they're doing a lot of stuff wrong and you're the one who can fix it, you'll just come across as belligerent and they probably won't want to work with you.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

If you already have a good relationship with your head instructor, then I would just talk to him. Let him know that you have experience in this stuff and ask if he wants you to bring in what you know from outside.

But if you go at him with the same attitude you seem to have in this thread, that they're doing a lot of stuff wrong and you're the one who can fix it, you'll just come across as belligerent and they probably won't want to work with you.

Ohh….I didn’t intend to come across that way. Just that I had concerns. I thought I’d worded I appropriately.

 

[skribs]

Ohh….I didn’t intend to come across that way. Just that I had concerns. I thought I’d worded I appropriately.

You might not have intended to, but that's how I read it. And sometimes it's hard to tell tone or context from a single post.

The reason I got this impression is because you're coming at this with how their knife training isn't accurate, but you have training that is. I don't know that there's a way to word that which doesn't come across as "I know better than the instructors, how do I convince them that I know better than them?"

 

[MuayJitsu]

they’re not interested in what you’ve done before it’s not your school and it’s not your place to be showing anyone or convincing anyone of anything you turn up you do as your told and follow the instructor and if you don’t like it that’s fine then leave. but you start trying to tell an instructor what to do you won’t be making any friends

 

[GreenieMeanie]

You might not have intended to, but that's how I read it. And sometimes it's hard to tell tone or context from a single post.

The reason I got this impression is because you're coming at this with how their knife training isn't accurate, but you have training that is. I don't know that there's a way to word that which doesn't come across as "I know better than the instructors, how do I convince them that I know better than them?"

It was just a drill, so my issue with it wasn’t accuracy. It was that my concern was dismissed entirely. I wouldn’t have thought twice about it if the instructor had directly addressed it, and followed up with “we’ll cover it in depth later, but for now, get good at this.”

 

[skribs]

It was just a drill, so my issue with it wasn’t accuracy. It was that my concern was dismissed entirely. I wouldn’t have thought twice about it if the instructor had directly addressed it, and followed up with “we’ll cover it in depth later, but for now, get good at this.”

So you were telling them in front of the class that the drill you're doing is wrong?

Definitely an after-class discussion. Especially once the instructor has dismissed it. And if they continue to dismiss, as many others in the thread have said: it's not your class. At that point your options are to continue with the terms they have set, or to quit due to irreconcilable differences.

 

[hoshin1600]

It was just a drill, so my issue with it wasn’t accuracy. It was that my concern was dismissed entirely. I wouldn’t have thought twice about it if the instructor had directly addressed it, and followed up with “we’ll cover it in depth later, but for now, get good at this.”

And that's not a big enough hint for you that your out of line?

Your probably a great guy with good intentions. that's not in question here. But if they wanted your input they would ask for it. Things like that should happen organically where the instructor asks, hey John Doe you have done other stuff before what's your take on this? Show us how xxx system does it. But that's not what's happening. My advise, keep your ideas and experience to your self, do the drills as asked and go do your own thing on your own time. If your desire to show people stuff can't be kept in check your time there will be short lived and not very pleasurable for all parties involved.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

So you were telling them in front of the class that the drill you're doing is wrong?

Definitely an after-class discussion. Especially once the instructor has dismissed it. And if they continue to dismiss, as many others in the thread have said: it's not your class. At that point your options are to continue with the terms they have set, or to quit due to irreconcilable differences.

No, it was just me and my drilling partner.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

And that's not a big enough hint for you that your out of line?

Your probably a great guy with good intentions. that's not in question here. But if they wanted your input they would ask for it. Things like that should happen organically where the instructor asks, hey John Doe you have done other stuff before what's your take on this? Show us how xxx system does it. But that's not what's happening. My advise, keep your ideas and experience to your self, do the drills as asked and go do your own thing on your own time. If your desire to show people stuff can't be kept in check your time there will be short lived and not very pleasurable for all parties involved.

His dismissal of my concern, made me worried he didn’t really understand the theory behind what he was teaching—only the drills and techniques passed on to him.

But I’m not quick to judge just on that.

 

[MuayJitsu]

His dismissal of my concern, made me worried he didn’t really understand the theory behind what he was teaching—only the drills and techniques passed on to him.

But I’m not quick to judge just on that.

But you’re quick to run to the internet to complain about it….womder how he’ll feel if he comes on this forum and sees one of his new guys trash talking him online

 

[MuayJitsu]

It was just a drill, so my issue with it wasn’t accuracy. It was that my concern was dismissed entirely. I wouldn’t have thought twice about it if the instructor had directly addressed it, and followed up with “we’ll cover it in depth later, but for now, get good at this.”

Sorry to break this to you but he doesn’t have to address your concerns Why? Because it’s his club his style his way. He’s in charge you’re job is go there learn not tell him what he’s doing is wrong all that does is make you look very arrogant which frankly to me is how you’re coming across on here to me.

ive trained in loads of styles and I’ve gone to different clubs that teach things differently to how I’d do them…sometimes it’s stuff I may not agree with you know what I do about that?….i keep my mouth shut and I practice what I’m being told to practice whether I agree with it or not because it’s not my class and I’m not rude or arrogant enough to tell an instructor in the middle of his own class that I think he’s wrong.
if it’s that much of an issue for you then leave the club go train somewhere else and go do your own thing

 

[GreenieMeanie]

But you’re quick to run to the internet to complain about it….womder how he’ll feel if he comes on this forum and sees one of his new guys trash talking him online

Sorry to break this to you but he doesn’t have to address your concerns Why? Because it’s his club his style his way. He’s in charge you’re job is go there learn not tell him what he’s doing is wrong all that does is make you look very arrogant which frankly to me is how you’re coming across on here to me.

ive trained in loads of styles and I’ve gone to different clubs that teach things differently to how I’d do them…sometimes it’s stuff I may not agree with you know what I do about that?….i keep my mouth shut and I practice what I’m being told to practice whether I agree with it or not because it’s not my class and I’m not rude or arrogant enough to tell an instructor in the middle of his own class that I think he’s wrong.
if it’s that much of an issue for you then leave the club go train somewhere else and go do your own thing

I didn’t realize the idea of questioning an instructor was so controversial.

 

[MuayJitsu]

I didn’t realize the idea of questioning an instructor was so controversial.

Asking questions is fine but it seems like you’re trying to tell him what to do in his own class and this whole thread is you saying you want to convince them to do it your way And if you really can’t see the problem with that then well that’s an issue

 

[hoshin1600]

His dismissal of my concern, made me worried he didn’t really understand the theory behind what he was teaching—only the drills and techniques passed on to him.

But I’m not quick to judge just on that.

And you may very well be correct in your assumptions. Maybe he's not that good.
So why waste your time with someone you dont respect?
Psychologically speaking people don't like when you point out thier failures especially in front of others. So now the result if you continue is that the instructor is not happy with you. Do you think he will be motivated to help you and teach you?

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Asking questions is fine but it seems like you’re trying to tell him what to do in his own class and this whole thread is you saying you want to convince them to do it your way And if you really can’t see the problem with that then well that’s an issue

I’ve never said that I want to convince anyone to do things my way, my interest is supplemental—but I’m getting the feeling that this is something of a hot-button on here.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

And you may very well be correct in your assumptions. Maybe he's not that good.
So why waste your time with someone you dont respect?
Psychologically speaking people don't like when you point out thier failures especially in front of others. So now the result if you continue is that the instructor is not happy with you. Do you think he will be motivated to help you and teach you?

I am learning something useful. I just hope for more. I have no intention of “confronting” anyone.

 

[MuayJitsu]

I’ve never said that I want to convince anyone to do things my way, my interest is supplemental—but I’m getting the feeling that this is something of a hot-button on here.

I suspect the students and instructors are, for now, more interested in my assimilation than my input.

Does anyone think I can convince them?

You sure about that? Because that’s not how it sounds from your own words