Five Martial Arts Principles

[Flying Crane]

This impresses you?

 

[Midnight-shadow]

There is always a better way of doing things. Countries and civilizations have been destroyed when leaders of said countries and civilizations instigate it. People have been destroyed for staring at someone a little too long. Countries have been destroyed for killing people. People have been destroyed for starting fights. Countries have been destroyed for doing nothing much. What's your point?

I guess it's just strange that there are no extremely active but confrontational, progressive (far-sighted and future-oriented) and challenging communities in general, even for martial arts.
And if I were beaten/stabbed to near-death, that would be motivation to be more competent not less competent.

Countries and civilisations were destroyed based on differences of opinion, not on who was objectively right or wrong. After all, nobody believes they are "evil", and even the most terrible acts can be justified in the eyes of the person performing those acts. And nobody here is saying that being more competent at defending yourself is a bad thing. All I said was your gun-hoe attitude towards fighting to defend your pride is going to get you hurt. There is nothing glorious or noble about being beaten half-to-death, especially if you started the fight by insulting someone who was bigger and stronger than you. If you get a chance, take a look at some of the threads by @Ironbear24 who used to have a similar attitude, getting into fights and letting his emotions and pride dictate his actions. It rarely ended well.

 

[Primal Monk]

This impresses you?

The needle, boiling oil, and guy just standing there taking punches (Yi Long) was neat. I think the water running one would improve someone's footwork quite a bit. The spear video was impressive.

 

[Flying Crane]

The needle, boiling oil, and guy just standing there taking punches (Yi Long) was neat. I think the water running one would improve someone's footwork quite a bit. The spear video was impressive.

I don’t find it impressive. I am certain that some of it is smoke and mirrors, some is trick photography, and the stuff that is real requires such constant dedication to training and maintenance that one’s life becomes consumed by it. One-trick pony.

No thanks. There is more to life than that. It does not impres me.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

The needle, boiling oil, and guy just standing there taking punches (Yi Long) was neat. I think the water running one would improve someone's footwork quite a bit. The spear video was impressive.

The majority of those demonstrations are a mere matter of applying physics correctly, and more often than not you can be an average joe and still pull them off. The throat-bending spear for example uses a blunt tip and the monk places the tip against a piece of cartilage in the neck which is hard enough to not get pierced when applying the pressure. Combined with the fact that the shaft of the spear is made of hollow-pliable bamboo and it's easy to see why it bends. These demonstrations are nothing but illusions, designed to impress tourists:

Does this impress you too?

 

[Primal Monk]

Countries and civilisations were destroyed based on differences of opinion, not on who was objectively right or wrong. After all, nobody believes they are "evil", and even the most terrible acts can be justified in the eyes of the person performing those acts. And nobody here is saying that being more competent at defending yourself is a bad thing. All I said was your gun-hoe attitude towards fighting to defend your pride is going to get you hurt. There is nothing glorious or noble about being beaten half-to-death, especially if you started the fight by insulting someone who was bigger and stronger than you. If you get a chance, take a look at some of the threads by @Ironbear24 who used to have a similar attitude, getting into fights and letting his emotions and pride dictate his actions. It rarely ended well.

I'm generally more calculating. I think about what kind of person I want to become and the future of the human race when making decisions. As national/group powers increase, I believe humans should develop the ability to be powers in and of themselves. Biological, bodily, willful power. It's the human 'blindspot'; the weakness of the species. The mind is well-developed in the human species, but the more physical has yet to catch up.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

At some point you might examine martial arts that exist now, have a decent collection of movement patterns, examples of which can be easily found, and are based on principles which are made known to the MA community. This I think would be well received by this viewing audience. One example that comes to mind might be Stephen K Hayes Toshindo knowledge base organized into an "Earth Water Fire Wind Void" conceptualization. Or Tai Chi Chuan's four major energies of ward-off, roll-back, press, push and the companion energies of split, pull-down, shoulder and elbow.

If you are looking for Neii JIa internal energy connections to the physical arts, IMHO that is tougher row to hoe, although there are people writing about it.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I'm generally more calculating. I think about what kind of person I want to become and the future of the human race when making decisions. As national/group powers increase, I believe humans should develop the ability to be powers in and of themselves. Biological, bodily, willful power. It's the human 'blindspot'; the weakness of the species. The mind is well-developed in the human species, but the more physical has yet to catch up.

I seem to recall Hitler having similar ambitions when he planned to improve the human species by creating the Aryan "Master Race" and sort to exterminate any group of people he considered to be inferior and "unworthy" of living. Or maybe you are thinking more of turning everyone into Spartan-like entities, who were deemed as the strongest and most physically advanced civilisation ever created. Want to know how they did it? On the backs of millions of slaves, or "Helots" who's only purpose was to grow the crops and make the weapons that the Spartans used in war, allowing the Spartans themselves to train their bodies all day every day. And here lies the problem with your grand idea. Any pro bodybuilder or powerlifter will tell you that it takes a great deal of time, effort and food to get to the physical peak, and there are simply not enough hours in the day to do all the training and everything else required for daily life.

Your average Olympic athlete trains 6 hours a day, 6 days a week. If they get 8 hours sleep a night, just the sleep and training alone takes up 14 hours, leaving just 10 hours a day for everything else, including eating the vast quantities of food required to sustain that level of training. Imagine if everyone in the world trained the same amount; who would take care of the livestock and crops needed to maintain their training? There's a reason why Olympic athletes get sponsored so that they can focus on their training rather instead of getting a normal job to pay their way.

 

[Primal Monk]

I seem to recall Hitler having similar ambitions when he planned to improve the human species by creating the Aryan "Master Race" and sort to exterminate any group of people he considered to be inferior and "unworthy" of living. Or maybe you are thinking more of turning everyone into Spartan-like entities, who were deemed as the strongest and most physically advanced civilisation ever created. Want to know how they did it? On the backs of millions of slaves, or "Helots" who's only purpose was to grow the crops and make the weapons that the Spartans used in war, allowing the Spartans themselves to train their bodies all day every day. And here lies the problem with your grand idea. Any pro bodybuilder or powerlifter will tell you that it takes a great deal of time, effort and food to get to the physical peak, and there are simply not enough hours in the day to do all the training and everything else required for daily life.

Your average Olympic athlete trains 6 hours a day, 6 days a week. If they get 8 hours sleep a night, just the sleep and training alone takes up 14 hours, leaving just 10 hours a day for everything else, including eating the vast quantities of food required to sustain that level of training. Imagine if everyone in the world trained the same amount; who would take care of the livestock and crops needed to maintain their training? There's a reason why Olympic athletes get sponsored so that they can focus on their training rather instead of getting a normal job to pay their way.

Tarahumara Running Tribe Featured In A New Documentary | Competitor.com
Rarámuri people - Wikipedia

Here is an article and wikipedia entry about a people who run up to a couple hundred or more miles at a time. They still exist. They survive on corn. They think it's fun and will stop for a smoke break.
If a people live their lives being athletic, each generation will become more and more athletic. The modernized members that don't run lose their ultra-endurance.

 

[Flying Crane]

Tarahumara Running Tribe Featured In A New Documentary | Competitor.com
Rarámuri people - Wikipedia

Here is an article and wikipedia entry about a people who run up to a couple hundred or more miles at a time. They still exist. They survive on corn. They think it's fun and will stop for a smoke break.
If a people live their lives being athletic, each generation will become more and more athletic. The modernized members that don't run lose their ultra-endurance.

Do you believe that acquired athletic conditioning is inherited? Because that is flat out wrong.

People as a species have a tremendous potential for long distance running, but that varies widely between individuals. However, actualizing that potential depends on the individual doing the work for himself. My natural athletic potential can be passed along to my offspring. But if I become an excellent runner through my own hard work, that conditioning does not get passed along to my offspring.

People living an athletic lifestyle does not mean the next generation will be even more athletic.

This is high school level biology.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There is always a better way of doing things. Countries and civilizations have been destroyed when leaders of said countries and civilizations instigate it. People have been destroyed for staring at someone a little too long. Countries have been destroyed for killing people. People have been destroyed for starting fights. Countries have been destroyed for doing nothing much. What's your point?

I guess it's just strange that there are no extremely active but confrontational, progressive (far-sighted and future-oriented) and challenging communities in general, even for martial arts.
And if I were beaten/stabbed to near-death, that would be motivation to be more competent not less competent.

Cooperation has created more advancement than confrontation. Useful, purposeful, and periodic confrontation can be a catalyst, but will never actually create purposeful change. Purposeful change requires people working together - cooperating.

As for progressive and future-oriented, there are groups like that within MA. If you haven't seen them, your experience is limiting your view.

 

[jobo]

Cooperation has created more advancement than confrontation. Useful, purposeful, and periodic confrontation can be a catalyst, but will never actually create purposeful change. Purposeful change requires people working together - cooperating.

As for progressive and future-oriented, there are groups like that within MA. If you haven't seen them, your experience is limiting your view.

not sure if that's true, wars have given rise to significant progress in technology, even cold wars where no one get shot have driven society forwards at an increased rate . Certainly co operation on the national scale is required, but this is easier to find if the nation has a common enemy

 

[Midnight-shadow]

not sure if that's true, wars have given rise to significant progress in technology, even cold wars where no one get shot have driven society forwards at an increased rate . Certainly co operation on the national scale is required, but this is easier to find if the nation has a common enemy

You can't really generalise it either way. Some conflicts have been necessary in advancing a particular nation, while other conflicts have destroyed a nation and stopped it advancing. For example, the Russian and French revolutions in the long run made lives better for the lower classes and paved the way for democracy (eventually). Without those conflicts I doubt the aristocracy of those nations would have given up their power that was crushing the peasants.

On the flip side, the various conflicts in China have in my opinion done nothing but restrict their progress as they have a nasty habit of wanting to destroy things they don't agree with. Many sources of knowledge have been lost in these conflicts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

not sure if that's true, wars have given rise to significant progress in technology, even cold wars where no one get shot have driven society forwards at an increased rate . Certainly co operation on the national scale is required, but this is easier to find if the nation has a common enemy

The war was the catalyst. Cooperation created the new technology in response to that catalyst.

 

[jobo]

The war was the catalyst. Cooperation created the new technology in response to that catalyst.

I'm not sure you know what a catalysts is,
from memory,..... it a medium that cause a reaction between other things, but its self remains unchanged by the process,

clearly the war was its self changed by the technology developed, so it cant by defintion be a catalysts

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not sure you know what a catalysts is,
from memory,..... it a medium that cause a reaction between other things, but its self remains unchanged by the process,

clearly the war was its self changed by the technology developed, so it cant by defintion be a catalysts

You're using a chemistry definition. We're not discussing chemistry.

 

[jobo]

You're using a chemistry definition. We're not discussing chemistry.

but its chemistry term you are using, it has no meaning outside of that arena , or perhaps any meaning if you insist on misuse

petrol is not a catalyst to air and fire, its part of the process .

war is not a catalyst for society and progress, it to Is part of the process

if you had called an agent of change, you would be correct,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but its chemistry term you are using, it has no meaning outside of that arena , or perhaps any meaning if you insist on misuse

petrol is not a catalyst to air and fire, its part of the process .

war is not a catalyst for society and progress, it to Is part of the process

if you had called an agent of change, you would be correct,

It's a term used in the common vernacular outside chemistry.

 

[jobo]

It's a term used in the common vernacular outside chemistry.

I'm not disputing that, people miss used all sorts of words, it generaly causes me to correct them, but you were using it in a scientific context, which then rather requires the scientific use,
you can't discuss science, if people just keep making up their own scientific defintions

 

[AngryHobbit]

To those still duking it out with @Primal Monk! I opted to ignore him, and my quality of interchange here suddenly went up.