You didn't have to be rich to get healthcare in the U.S. before Obamacare either. Health insurance coverage was an issue, but could and can be resolved with smaller solutions than having the government rationing care to the neediest people.
Don't go, Don't kill - The hypocrisy of repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell
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Then you missed the part that a lot of people did not have any coverage or that even with coverage you are just one severe accident/illness away from economic annihilation.
It is however not what bilichik was talking about, he had a completely different idea about how our healthcare was funded so I was explaining to him. He keeps confusing socialism with communism.
Tez, look at the Ann Coulter is great post and you will see an explanation of why socialims and communism are one and the same, regardless of what anyone says.
I didn't miss that part about no coverage, which is why I said people had healthcare but no insurance, and there are fixes to the problem of a lack of insurance causing bankruptcy. One of the first would be to get the government out of healthcare. Instead of taking over healthcare, the government could have simply paid the premiums for people without healthcare, and it would have cost less, with less loss of control for individuals than obamacare. Now the death panels are back, cancer drug rationing is beginning, companies are going to start dropping their health insurance coverage, and for those with insurance, the premiums are going to sky rocket next year. Also, insurance companies are no longer going to issue certain policies. Nice fix.
Tez, does this accurately describe the health care available in England?
http://www.heartland.org/policybot/...England_Not_Your_Cup_of_Tea_Introduction.html
The term “single-payer health care” has been popularized by the media in describing the Canadian system—or any system, like the NHS, where government collects taxes and charges most people a premium for the insurance. It is the government bureaucracy that writes all the rules of eligibility, establishes the formulae for delivery of care, rations the care to conserve money, and employs the medical professionals.
Single-payer health care is national health care, socialized medicine, and universal health insurance—but it is definitely not universal health care.
You mentioned you pay a premium, but is the rest true about your system? The government charges the premium, sets policy and pays the doctors?
http://www.heartland.org/policybot/...England_Not_Your_Cup_of_Tea_Introduction.html
The term “single-payer health care” has been popularized by the media in describing the Canadian system—or any system, like the NHS, where government collects taxes and charges most people a premium for the insurance. It is the government bureaucracy that writes all the rules of eligibility, establishes the formulae for delivery of care, rations the care to conserve money, and employs the medical professionals.
Single-payer health care is national health care, socialized medicine, and universal health insurance—but it is definitely not universal health care.
You mentioned you pay a premium, but is the rest true about your system? The government charges the premium, sets policy and pays the doctors?
Guess you miss my posts there too.
I'm guessing too the history you've learned is all from television programmes rather than from anywhere academic. I think you need to delve deeper into history and politics from a more reliable source.
In Europe there are countries that have socialist governments that aren't even close to being communist, they have Christian Socialist parties and governments. In Italy they have Christian Communist parties. You don't understand and you aren't alone, in misunderstanding what liberals are in the UK and Europe so you misundrstand what liberal governments and parties are over here. If you are going to cite European politics you should understand what they are, if you don't, stick to American politics.
I'm not siting European politics, and the Christian communists are lying to fool people who are religous. Communism has no place for religion. using religous terms is one of the ways they try to subvert people. We have the same thing in the catholic church. You should watch more television. You might learn more of the fun side of history. The sex and the violence end anyway. Actually, I watch less regular television than I used to. The cable shows follow a pattern, the first episodes are usually way over the top with sex and violence, and then all of that slows down and you get more story. I think it is because the network bigwigs are pretty degenerate guys, and the people making the shows want to catch their attention. Hence, the sex and violence.
Oh dear me, I've just frightened the cat by laughing so much.
I get enough real life sex and violence, ta, don't need the second hand type. And I'm off for more, night shift tonight and New Years Eve.
Government decides what is funded or not. At their own risk at the next election. Medical professionals are not employees of the government. They are either employees of a hospital or, like the majority of doctors, independent businessmen who bill the government for their services.
Everybody is covered. It is universal.
I think he is referring to the rationing aspect when he says not everyone is covered. Bye for now.
Universal healthcare never referred to everything covered, but to the coverage of every individual.
Open heart surgery is not going to bankrupt anyone. The nose job may have to wait until you have the funds.
Open heart surgery is not going to bankrupt anyone. The nose job may have to wait until you have the funds.
You meant like the Canadian government official who needed heart surgery, found out it would take months to get the procedure and then came to the States to get it done in about a week. That is not exactly a nose job. Or the 80 year old woman who had cancer in Enland and kept being put on waiting lists to see a doctor. After, I think it was a year, she gets in to see the doctor and they told her, oops, too late, it had spread. I knew a guy who i worked with here in the states. He had testicular cancer, had no job, and had been unemployed for at least a year with no insurance. After he finally worked up the courage to deal with the problem, he saw the doctor and they performed the surgery the next week, followed by chemo. No insurance, no job, and he was seen right away. Or how about the contracter in England who broke his ankle at work. Because he was a smoker they wouldn't do the surgery. They gave him morphine for the pain, but until he quit smoking he was out of luck. These are not nose jobs.
I know someone in Poland who needs hemmorhoid surgery. They told him that he could get the surgery in 9 months. He has been asked to fly here to the states so he could just get it done, but he doesn't want to take the flight. Not exactly nose surgery but the wait time is excessive.
http://health.gaeatimes.com/2010/02...-raising-questions-about-health-system-18938/
Also, if he is the same guy, he was told in Canada that they would have to crack his chest for the surgery, when he came here they had a more advanced procedure where they went through the arm pit to do the surgery and avoided cracking the chest. If I have to I can track down the other stories as well. And the Bankruptcy issue can be dealt with with limited reforms to the system. It doesn't take a complete takeover by the government to fix it. Besides, bankrupt is still better than being dead, and if you can't pay, what would they do besides wait for you to pay. Dead is kind of a permanent condition.
I know someone in Poland who needs hemmorhoid surgery. They told him that he could get the surgery in 9 months. He has been asked to fly here to the states so he could just get it done, but he doesn't want to take the flight. Not exactly nose surgery but the wait time is excessive.
http://health.gaeatimes.com/2010/02...-raising-questions-about-health-system-18938/
Also, if he is the same guy, he was told in Canada that they would have to crack his chest for the surgery, when he came here they had a more advanced procedure where they went through the arm pit to do the surgery and avoided cracking the chest. If I have to I can track down the other stories as well. And the Bankruptcy issue can be dealt with with limited reforms to the system. It doesn't take a complete takeover by the government to fix it. Besides, bankrupt is still better than being dead, and if you can't pay, what would they do besides wait for you to pay. Dead is kind of a permanent condition.
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Higher mortality rates in women in their 80's who have breast cancer in England.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-03/uom-loc032907.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-03/uom-loc032907.php
He could have had the surgery in another province. He chose to go to the US.
Anybody can cherry pick horror stories. Botom line is that you have no idea how the system really works. It's always been there for me. Cases are prioritized.
Is it perfect? not at all. It does beat the US system. Just peruse these forums, it's full of people who describe injuries and ask for advice because they can't go to the doctor.
I suggest you start broadening your sources of information.
Anybody can cherry pick horror stories. Botom line is that you have no idea how the system really works. It's always been there for me. Cases are prioritized.
Is it perfect? not at all. It does beat the US system. Just peruse these forums, it's full of people who describe injuries and ask for advice because they can't go to the doctor.
I suggest you start broadening your sources of information.
Are they prioritizing beds in maternity wards in England? Apparently they don't have enough of them for all the ladies with babies.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/278301
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/278301
It looks like they may be prioritizing baby deliveries in Canada as well.
http://www.womensenews.org/story/medicine/101220/canada-faces-growing-loss-maternity-wards
"Scarcity of Health Care Providers
The Ontario Medical Association, for instance, projects that 10,000 women will not have any healthcare provider of any kind by 2012. The Niagara Health System says that the scarcity in providers, particularly obstetricians and gynecologists, is one reason behind their decision to centralize maternity care."
I guess socialism is working, if thats what you mean by working in Canada. The internet is a wonderful thing.
http://www.womensenews.org/story/medicine/101220/canada-faces-growing-loss-maternity-wards
"Scarcity of Health Care Providers
The Ontario Medical Association, for instance, projects that 10,000 women will not have any healthcare provider of any kind by 2012. The Niagara Health System says that the scarcity in providers, particularly obstetricians and gynecologists, is one reason behind their decision to centralize maternity care."
I guess socialism is working, if thats what you mean by working in Canada. The internet is a wonderful thing.
Don! Big News... I actually agree with you. I must be coming down with something.
Sean
I am going to possibly move the healthcare success stories to another thread, just to let you know. This one is a little used up. THanks for the comments and the debate.
My nine year old nephew has had and continues to have more surgeries then any child should ever go through, there would be no possible way my sister, and our extended family could have ever paid for all of them.
A couple of years ago my sister was visiting my Aunt and Uncle in Scotland, my Nephew, the same boy, had to be rushed to their emergency department because of a medical issue. Not even a citizen of the UK, the Drs treated him, and sent him on his way, no cost, no mess, no fuss, no money, no insurance. No problem.
A few years ago both my Mom and Dad had serious health issues, my Mom had cancer, my Dad had heart problems. All happened in the same week. Quicker then you can snap your fingers, my Dad was in the best hospital, with the best Dr having a triple bypass, and my Mom was in the best hospital with the best cancer specialist have surgery and subsequent radiation and drug treatments. Minimal waiting, no ********, get in and get it done.
Our system isnt perfect by any means, but when I talk to my American friends, (half of my friends on FB are American), I hear serious horror stories when it comes to medical treatment.
What Obama is doing, with you folks being forced to buy health insurance from private companies is wrong, there are much better ways to run national health care.
BTW, did I ever tell you that Im a Conservative party member? Card carrying? Active in the community? And there is zero chance I or my party will ever get rid of Canadas socialized medical care.
