The Torture of Bradley Manning

[Makalakumu]

http://www.truth-out.org/the-torture-bradley-manning66147

The peerless Glenn Greenwald in this case gets it wrong when he says Manning's treatment is "possibly" torture. Isolation is torture and has been proven to be so. Hardened prisoners have said they would take almost any other punishment for misbehavior over isolation and its effects on the mind and the spirit. According to Greenwald, Manning has been kept in his cell without any human contact whatsoever for 23 out of 24 hours every day for six months, is prohibited from exercising in his cell, takes his meals alone and is being administered what he is told are anti-depressants by the prison doctor to keep his mind from snapping from the effects of the constant, steady quiet, the artificial light which makes it impossible to distinguish night from day and the aloneness with one's own thoughts. Hard as it may be to understand without experiencing it, interaction with other humans, even other accused, is a vital part of the touchstones with reality which frame our psyche. In testimony introduced at the trial of another prisoner accused of material assistance to terrorists, Fahad Hashmi,who was held in isolation for two years, doctors concluded that:

"after 60 days' solitary detention people's mental state begins to break down and gradually develops into psychosis as the mind disintegrates."
​

Thoughts?

 

[billc]

As long as it isn't cruel, which this doesn't sound like it is, in fact, they may be keeping him isolated for his own safety, and as long as it isn't unusual, you would need to look at the universal code of millitary justice on this, I'm fine with it. It sounds like he wasn't very stable to begin with when he conducted espionage/treason by stealing the classified documents. There are consequenses to committing crimes, and long periods of isolation are part of that process. There are prisoners in federal prisons who are under 24 hours a day lock down as well, the millitary side should be expected to be more severe than the civillian side, it is part of being in the millitary.

 

[WC_lun]

It is a double edged sword. If they keep him in solitairitary, he will suffer. I don't think it is acceptable under normal circumstances to keep a prisoner in solitairy for long stretches of time. Creating prisoners with psycotic breaks with reality isn't helpful for anyone involved. However, any contact with fellow inmates, who we must remember are criminals, also puts his life at risk. That isn't aceptable either, especially for a prisoner who has yet to be convicted of a crime. Like a lot of things, I don't know the answer to this puzzle.

 

[Big Don]

Bradley Manning is stands accused of a number of felonies. Keeping him in custody, until his trial is then, a given.
He is in a military facility. Every other detainee in that facility knows what Manning is accused of. It may well be in his best interests that he remains in solitary confinement.
For the same reasons rapists and child molesters are kept away from other inmates. Remember, all the people he is locked up with volunteered to serve in the US military. Some of his fellow criminals may not like the idea of a traitor in their midst...

 

[Makalakumu]

Assuming that Manning is guilty, is he a traitor if he helps reveal to the American people crimes that the State is committing? Isn't that like calling an informant on a criminal gang a traitor? Also, isn't it possible to hold Manning without torturing him? Perhaps the State is simply trying to sweat Manning out in order to get a confession that'll kill Wikileaks and Assange?

 

[billc]

What crimes did he disclose?

 

[Makalakumu]

What crimes did he disclose?

Here's one...

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Google War Crimes Revealed by Wikileaks for a list of articles.

 

[Big Don]

Here's one...

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

A specific link maybe? That is a link to a website's home page, a virulently anti-war and anti-anything American website, btw...
Maybe Reuters won't embed their news crews with terrorists anymore...

 

[billc]

Watched the video, what is the crime? You have reporters mixed in with what was assumed to be hostile enemies armed with rifles. At no point did the pilots say let's kill unarmed civillians and journalists. You are dealing with terrorists hiding among civillians. Before people get up in arms about journalists getting killed, keep in mind some of the video of the terrorists. I remember one of a sniper and his partner killing an american soldier who was standing in a market. While the sniper killed the American soldier, the other guy took video of the killing, which they then posted on various websites. Since you cannot clearly tell that what is slung over the individuals shoulders is in fact a camera, and the other guys in the group actually have rifles, what is the crime. It is a war zone, with terrorists hiding behind the cover of civillians. This is why Geneva was never meant to cover terrorists. It was meant to protect civillians as much as possible in conflicts by protecting soldiers who did not endanger civillians unnecessarily.

 

[billc]

I guess war zone has no context for civillians sitting at home in the states.

 

[Archangel M]

Thoughts?

Boo-hooo-hooo!!!

Merry Christmas!!

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[Makalakumu]

Watched the video, what is the crime? You have reporters mixed in with what was assumed to be hostile enemies armed with rifles. At no point did the pilots say let's kill unarmed civillians and journalists. You are dealing with terrorists hiding among civillians. Before people get up in arms about journalists getting killed, keep in mind some of the video of the terrorists. I remember one of a sniper and his partner killing an american soldier who was standing in a market. While the sniper killed the American soldier, the other guy took video of the killing, which they then posted on various websites. Since you cannot clearly tell that what is slung over the individuals shoulders is in fact a camera, and the other guys in the group actually have rifles, what is the crime. It is a war zone, with terrorists hiding behind the cover of civillians. This is why Geneva was never meant to cover terrorists. It was meant to protect civillians as much as possible in conflicts by protecting soldiers who did not endanger civillians unnecessarily.

Excuses don't matter when it's a war crime.

 

[Makalakumu]

A specific link maybe? That is a link to a website's home page, a virulently anti-war and anti-anything American website, btw...

Dude, the site comes right from Wikileaks. I'm sorry its not MSNBC or Fox, but they don't seem to be reporting on this. They report on whether or not Bradley Manning is gay.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1012/01/sitroom.02.html

"Manning, according to friends, was gay and felt he was ridiculed in the military for it. In an instant message shortly before he was taken into custody, Manning wrote, "I've been isolated so long. I just wanted to be nice and live a long normal life, but events kept forcing me to figure out ways to survive, smart enough to know what's going on, but helpless to do anything. No one took any notice of me."

Are those the kind of sources you want?

 

[Big Don]

Um, "I acted in a manner that made my fellow soldiers hate me, and was too much of a self-absorbed little pissant, it didn't matter to me how my fellow soldiers felt about my behavior." Isn't and has never been an excuse for treason.

 

[Big Don]

Dude, the site comes right from Wikileaks.
Are those the kind of sources you want?

That is pretty funny, considering Assange claims Manning wasn't the leak...

 

[Makalakumu]

Um, "I acted in a manner that made my fellow soldiers hate me, and was too much of a self-absorbed little pissant, it didn't matter to me how my fellow soldiers felt about my behavior." Isn't and has never been an excuse for treason.

Dude, are you insinuating that Bradley Manning may have released the documents because he was a little wuss who was hated by his fellow soldiers and...

?????

Where did you ever come up with that?

 

[Makalakumu]

That is pretty funny, considering Assange claims Manning wasn't the leak...

What's pretty funny? Non sequitur.

 

[Big Don]

Dude, are you insinuating that Bradley Manning may have released the documents because he was a little wuss who was hated by his fellow soldiers and...

Uh no, you insinuated that.

?????

Where did you ever come up with that?

Your post HERE

What's pretty funny? Non sequitur.

Your citing Wikileaks and then denying the claims forwarded in the citation, that is pretty funny.

Dude, the site comes right from Wikileaks.

 

[Makalakumu]

Uh no, you insinuated that.
Your post HERE

Your citing Wikileaks and then denying the claims forwarded in the citation, that is pretty funny.

Oh, I see now. I think you missed my point. I cited wikileaks and you wanted something that was less "biased" so I posted a mainstream source that shows the bias in the other direction. Apparently the MSM feels the need to assassinate Manning's character by insinuating that he was gay. Not that this matters to me, but for many American's that matters enough to discredit him.

 

[Cryozombie]

Assuming that Manning is guilty, is he a traitor if he helps reveal to the American people crimes that the State is committing?

That's Irrelevant.

You can call him a Hero, a Traitor, or a freaking Banana... what we think doesn't matter, its what his fellow inmates think that may put his life at risk if he is released from Solitary.