Do you want to evaluate my workout?

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by amateur, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. amateur

    amateur Orange Belt

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    You're wrong. I know plenty of stuff about fitness and martial arts. For instance, I know that training for aesthetical reasons is different from training for martial arts. In the first case, you train all your muscles equally. In the second case, you don't need to bother with every muscle on your body. Triceps/biceps growth will do you little to no good in a fight. That's why I do knuckles push ups, which develop forearms too, so that I gain gripping strength. (The knuckles conditioning benefit is something we can take to my other thread.) Normal push ups target mainly triceps/chest. Why don't you try to reply to my arguments above instead of being like 'I'm done with you'?
    This is a discussion forum. We exchange views until we reach a conclusion. It's not a place where some people are considered authorities and the other people just ask for their advice and treat their replies as gospel without asking for explanations.
     
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  2. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I have to disagree hugely with "don't need to bother" with certain muscle groups.

    So you develop grip strength, without bicep, tricep, pectoral and pretty much every muscle in your shoulders, you'll be like a sticky noodle - annoying to shake off but having little actual effect.

    You want to pull with your string grip - you need strong biceps and back muscles. Want to push - you need shoulder, chest and tris. Want to twist, you need the lot.

    You use knuckle pushups to condition your knuckles - that suggests you want to punch. Weak biceps will mean you will have difficulty keeping your hands up, and weak tris will inhibit the force of your extension (punching power starts elsewhere, but is heavily augmented by extension).

    For any of that to be as effective as possible, you need a strong core, and you need strong legs to keep everything up - and kicking? Add more to leg requirements.

    On top of all that, you need a decent amount of cardio resilience or it's all just for show.


    In essence, MA training needs a much more balanced approach that covers more areas than "muscle beach" type bodybuilding for aesthetics.
     
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  3. amateur

    amateur Orange Belt

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    So will chin ups help me build strength for pull ups?
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I rest my case , you don't train to make them bigger, you train to make them stronger, every one of them, and how on earth do you think push ups help your grip strength, ?
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, but not as much as doing pull-ups will. So, if you can't do a pull-up, do a chin-up. Once you can do a pull-up, if those are your target, then start doing what pull-ups you can. Lower repetitions tends to build strength faster as a general rule, so if you can only do 3 pull-ups, you're building strength for that activity pretty quickly.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    This is correct (though they may get visibly bigger as a result, that's not the point, and won't always be commensurate with strength).

    As for the push-ups building grip strength, the only thing I think fist push-ups will add is stability, as that tasks the stabilizing muscles, not the gripping muscles. Spread-finger push-ups (sometimes called "fingertip push-ups") do stress the gripping muscles...if done properly (otherwise, they just strain joints). And to do those well, you already need strong gripping muscles.
     
  7. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    What I’ve found helps the most is to have someone spot you. Grab the bar and have them grab your legs in any kind of grip that’s comfortable for you. As you pull up they help push.

    That way you get a full range of motion, strengthening what ever needs strengthening.

    Your partner can also vary how much they lift. Small point, but an important one - always end on a complete pull up, not on an unfinished one.
     
  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    yes that will help , but it rather depends on your focus, people doing body weight exercises have a tabdancy to measure their improvements in the number of reps completed, and it is obviously AN improvement,

    where as the stenghn gains generally come from the eccentric, putting down element of the movement, and that can be badly neglected, as doing slow controlled descents has the marked effect of reducing the number of reps you can do. so rep progress is very slow, but strength progress is good,

    ascas soon as you get a bit stronger your loweringg should get slower so the reps stay much the same.

    but you seem much the same with weight lifting, wsynthetic people become obsessed with kg and put silly big weight on, that they have no option but to drop like a stone
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    And some gyms have an assisted pull-up machine that uses weight to off-set some of your own weight, providing some of the same benefit (not quite the same, because you can't go full-weight on the resistance stroke). I used one of these when rehabbing my shoulder.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Most of us fall into that mental trap. I've found the easiest way around it is to do a "max reps" day every once in a while, where I'm just measuring (not trying to build). So I can just lower safely but not especially slowly, and see how many I can get in before fatigue. The rest of the days, my mind will leave me alone and let me focus on doing what I need to improve.
     

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