Do you think its to dangerous drinking in different countries other than the USA?

Discussion in 'The Locker Room Bar & Grill' started by Chrisinmd, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you've clearly copied and pasted that

    but yes, there are other life style factors, but poor life style choices is an effect of regular drinking, you just don't meet many fit slim healthy 50 year old who drink to any level, so is it the same lack of respect for their body that means that also have a poor diet and don't exercise sufficiently o, is it cumlative effects of alcohol th has affected their self respect and cognitive function, they clearly can't address weight and health issues until they have adrrsed their adiction, as their adiction is adding to them day after day
     
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  2. Chrisinmd

    Chrisinmd Orange Belt

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    Yes I copied and pasted the review of the study. Told the potential issues with the study mentioned so take it for what its worth.
     
  3. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you seem to have leapt on the issues that support your world view, rather than doing a careful weighing up of the issues, no where in that rebultsle does it say achol isn't bad for you, it just seems to be arguing that it won't kill you before the heart attack you get from "over eating" and lack of exercise does, ignoring the obvious issue that over eating and lethargy are a byproduct of alcohol consumption
     
  4. Chrisinmd

    Chrisinmd Orange Belt

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    Yes I would totally agree with the quality of life issues is almost just as important as the life expectancy issues. But how likely are you to experience those quality of life issues if you drink at a moderate or reasonable rate? Sure if your a heavy daily drinker or frequent binge drinker yes.

    And yes I have plenty of fun when im not drinking. But it can be enjoyable on occasion
     
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  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    what argument are you putting forward and what is moderate and reasonable, ,

    if your saying that having one class of wine on a Sunday dinner time will not adversely affect you, I'm in agreement that it will take several life times to see the health effects. the more you increase that the more damage you do, the more likely the effects will manifest with in your life time, and the more severe the effects will be.

    it's a poison its always bad for you, if you take it in faster than your body can remove it, you get intoxicated and the level of damage increases.

    you may not be an at risk person as your consumption is so low, but that not the case yoiuve been putting forward, which is that it's not detrimental to health and well being and life expectancy at any " reasonable" does.
    reasonable doses are not the societal norms, as people do it with the intent of becoming intoxicated, so by definition that's not " a reasonable dose" and is harmful

    if a loved one was sniffing glue and using the same logic as you, would you say, yea fine, as long as its only three sniffs three times a week, that ok

    nb, 30 years ago, I got through the day at a very dull and unpleasant job , by sniffing typex thinner, before they made it water based, it was in retrospect a very stupid thing to do and I should have sort my career options out
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  6. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    well, you are already starting off with bias.

    We do agree Chlorine is a poison? It should always be bad for you!
    Natrium is an alkali metal, bursts into flame when it comes int contact with air.
    Really bad for you, right!
     
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  7. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Stupidity is a poison too. But we seem to have plenty of it here in the States. And the fkrs seem to thrive.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Just a note: per guidelines, you're expected to cite your source for that.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, what the information she posted says is we can't tell if the alcohol is bad or not. At a low level, it appears to have some minor beneficial effects (reduced risk of myocardial infarction) and some minor risks (raised risk of stroke), but either of those - or both - may be confounded by other variables.

    The comparison to the coffee study is a good point. More recent studies show longevity benefits for even heavy coffee drinkers, which is a direct contradiction to the conclusions drawn from the confounded studies. Of course, it could as easily have gone the other way.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The study data don't seem to support that statement. There may be data that support it, but I've never seen any.
     
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  11. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Some studies make me scratch my head, or rather the conclusions they come up with!
    one time I saw a thing on cutting boards. They compared plastic to wood.
    They found - as expected - bacteria on the plastic cutting board.
    But none on the wooden ones! They assumed that the wood fiber killed the bacteria as it dried out.

    Ergo?
    Use plastic cutting boards, because you can bleach them!
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

    a German study was following juvenile marijuana users into adult hood. A large number were diagnosed with mental issues as they become older
    The study was small and well, they concluded, or intimated that weed use in childhood makes you develop mental issues.
    As the study was small, and you can't really make people part take in illegal substances, and of course nobody considered that the individuals might have been self medicating for the early onset of what ever condition it was....

    Somewhere studies like this are junk.

    There is a really old joke:
    A professor has a demonstration in his lecture with a flea
    he has the bug sitting on his finger and commands 'jump'
    The flea jumps
    Then he cuts the legs off the flea and puts it back on his finger
    "Jumps" - nothing happens

    'You see, students: When you cut the legs off a fleam, god strikes it with deafness!"
     
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  12. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    eh
    ethanol alcohol is a poison, that isn't ( I thought) up for debate if you want data, Google a chemical data sheet for ethanol

    are are you ssuggesting poisons arnt bad for you ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
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  13. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Chlorine is a poison, too, yet you ingest it every day.
    As I said, you approach with bias. Ethanol is a solvent.
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I don't ingest it every day
    but you keep posting much the same thing with out explanation are you saying that as you are exposed to toxic substances everyday, its a good idea to purposely expose your self to another one ?

    if not what point are you making
     
  15. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    yes, you do ingest it every single day
    you can't avoid ingesting it,
    Because as half of the components of table salt you HAVE to.
    It is actually essential, particularly when you work out and sweat a lot.

    and of course the other half is essential in other parts of the body's functions
    Na+/K+-ATPase - Wikipedia
     
  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no that's a silly arrgumet, salt doesn't contain chlorine, it contains chloride, which to save you googling has an additional electron and so is a different chemical, it's usually a clue, when it has a different name !

    so no chlorine in salt, at all !
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  17. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    This site suggests that pure salt has chloride, while table salt has chlorine. No idea how trustworthy, it was the first thing my google search found.

    A brief history of salt – Real Salt
     
  18. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Water treatment plants commonly use chlorine as part of the treatment process. So it's quite likely that you do ingest chlorine regularly.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    they use very low doses of choline in the uk water treatment and I own a water filter that removes that and the far more worrying aluminium, chlorine will boil off aluminium wont
     
  20. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    it's the same element. Cl.
    the chemical bond makes the difference

    @ DirtyDog Tap water is usually laced with Chlorine in the US but the constant presence makes us go 'noseblind' to it, and only when they had an 'incident' at the plant and had to increase the amounts can you really tell again.

    You notice it when you come back from a civilized country (like Europe) and then WHOA, that Chlorine smell is strong!

    Oh, and yeah, stuff is absorbed through the skin, like in showers.
     
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