Discussion on time

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by skribs, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Me and a couple of the Hapkido students at my dojang met yesterday for a practice session. Of the four of us, I was the senior member there in terms of Hapkido rank.

    One member (the next senior) was talking about the timing of techniques. How we should be going for techniques as soon as we're grabbed, or else even when we see a grab coming we should spring into action. But as it is right now, we typically drill where you get grabbed and then you go. Our scenario sparring usually starts from a random situation, in which we usually take a moment to process and analyze before we go.

    Another member (next most senior) had a different complaint. That in BJJ you're taught not to chase bad techniques, but rather adapt to the situation and try something else. The Hapkido equivalent is that if a V-Lock isn't working, you read your opponent's resistance and do a technique that moves in that direction.

    I listened to them both, and I said, "I think you're both bringing up different things, but the answer to both is time." I went on to explain that in the case of timing techniques, our timing is getting tighter and tighter with more practice. And in the case of modifying techniques to not force a bad technique, as we drill more we get more comfortable moving in and out of different locks and throws.

    What do you guys think? Is this sort of the normal progression? That timing and execution come with time? Or would you have something different to say?
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Timing comes with specific drilling.
     
  3. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    It also shows up with non-specific sparring/rolling practice, less effectively (from a length of time to get there basis, but more effectively from a breadth of applicability basis).
     
  4. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Interesting question. I don't know there is a good answer given the many different attacks to different parts of the body, and the many defenses. An example might be if you see a movement towards your right arm and move to defend against the wrist grab, only to learn the attack is intended to grab the elbow sleeve. Some wrist grab defenses might help for a grab to the forearm clothing, but won't be very effective against a grab the sleeve at the elbow. Waiting that split second to be sure where you are being grabbed might make for a more effective defense as opposed to a possibly failed defense.

    But that gets back to your question on timing. Can you adapt if you find you mistook the target of the attack? Perhaps. If you wait too long to be sure do you risk an attack being too successful too quickly?
     
  5. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Adapt to the situation.

    The situation sometimes changes. Adapt as it does.

    You really can't go wrong if you train hard and adapt.
     
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  6. Christopher Adamchek

    Christopher Adamchek Blue Belt

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    if its not the largest focus at the 'time' lol - then improving timing comes with time

    peoples developed timing is also highly related to direct or indirect timing related drills

    As you said techniques adaptability is also important. Depending on the subject i often try to break down the timing of the techniques as "i see it coming", "just barely saw it coming", and "OH sh*t its here" and different response options at those points.
     
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  7. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    I think it is important to work on the different timings. Too soon, just right and too late. Even after you get pretty good at getting the timing just right, don't neglect training too soon and too late. Your just right timing, works great in your school, with the people you normally train with, who are reacting the right way. As you work with other people, from other places and other styles, it gets harder to get the just right timing. With time, you can get the just right timing on more people... but until then, you will need to be able to still be effective at too early and too late.

    One of the common issues with this type of training (wrist lock / grab defense) is that everyone focuses on what happens with your hands. Sure thats important... but its more important to learn focus on what your body is doing. I like to train the too late defense. Let the other guy get his grip fully, and settle in. Now I try to do the escape. If I am using just my hand or arm, in fails. This means I need to work on my body. Get my feet in the right position, get myself into the correct structure, then learn to generate the power through the use of the body, through the hips and connected to the hand / arm movement.

    I like to think of the wrist locks, and arm grab escapes as foot techniques. If you get your feet in the right place, and use your legs to generate the power correctly, it takes much less hand or arm strength. Where you step and put your feet and how you split your weight between you feet... will off balance the guy grabbing you, break his structure and generate the power you need. Then you work on transferring that power from your hips, into the escape or lock. As this becomes easier, you can make it dynamic and add motion and all kinds of other stuff into your drills. By focusing more on what your body does... you start to care less about whether he grabs your fingers, your hand, your wrist or your elbow. Or if he is punching instead of grabbing. You may have to use a different technique name when explaining what you did... but thats ok.

    Yes, what you do with your hands is important. But, if your body is not in the right position, it won't matter how correct your hands are.
     
  8. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I'm going to simultaneously say we don't do that, and we do do that. We fall into the habit of trying to focus on the wristlock or muscle the other person down, but that's a personal error and not an error in the curriculum. We're reminded over and over again to use our footwork, especially when we fail because our footwork wasn't correct.

    It's also an error I make less and less.
     
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  9. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    Welcome to the club! That is the joy of training.
     
  10. Pentti

    Pentti Yellow Belt

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    You have a good reflection.

    Fighting is like playing chess, only moves are faster.
     

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