So just how many techniques does your hapkido program have anyway?

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Daniel Sullivan, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

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    "Unless, you are just counting variations on a theme and are essentially the same technique with a minor move added or deleted."

    Thats probably the real discussion. And then as stated above it becomes why claim more or less blah blah blah. Its about flow and transition and variants to all equations. Count them as you like. Just make sure as each situation variable occurs you have practiced it 10,000 times so you can react accordingly from muscle memory. Oh crap! that will take another two lifetimes : )
     
  2. shinka

    shinka White Belt

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    In Hoshinkido Hapkido ...NOT KIDDING. We have 3800 technics in total.
     
  3. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    Do you see this as a good or bad thing? What is your specific focus in training in Hapkido?
     
  4. shinka

    shinka White Belt

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    I see it as a good thing...cause it's oviously many variables..... depending on many factors etc... It's good to be able to know what to do in all different aspect of the situation... It's also important to learn them well too.... That's why we practice a lot and it's not an easy task.
    We have 13 belts to black...It's a long run but..........worth it
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    When I was young I wanted arts with thousands of techniques. Now I strongly feel that 'less is more'. Too many techniques means too little mastery and too much reaction-slowing choice for me.

    The locks of hapkido and similar arts do lend themselves to minor variations that I still think of as just exploring the options of a single basic technique. I recall reading that Hwa Rang Do has 365 kicks--one for each day of the year. On investigation they were in each case counting what I'd call a 'kick' at least three times (low, middle, high), and sometimes more. It may well be a matter of presentation: Boxing is often said to consist of just 5 punches (jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand) but to me a rear-hand uppercut and a forehand uppercut, or one to the chin vs. one shoveled to the abdomen, could easily be counted as separate techniques. Similarly for front-hand vs. rear-hand hooks.

    I think that in the end we all know many more techniques than are really in our actual go-to repertoire, which is usually pretty small.
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    The upside of this is that black belts can get bored in training doing the same old thing. It can keep people involved with the art and fine-tuning higher-level skills while keeping their basics in practice. It's an advertising tool at the beginning and a retention tool as students slide into the long middle of their martial arts careers. Keeping people interested and thinking does matter.
     
  7. iron_ox

    iron_ox Black Belt

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    Choi Dojunim claimed 3808 techniques, a good number of these come from a set of rules that apply to the set of material that was taught from white belt to black belt.
     
  8. bushido

    bushido Yellow Belt

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    We have 12 base techniques per discipline...
    12 strikes, 12 throws, 12 kicks, 12 joint breaks etc...the exception being meridians or pressure points

    Each lvl has a variation, so 12 + 12 = 24 strikes per lvl etc, not 12 * 12, lol. Total per level = 72, not per technique per lvl ;) So, 72 original, plus 72 variants. Dependant upon your belt system too of course, I know some use the TKD system :(

    So Orange = 144 + 72

    Minus pressure points, there are 72 basic techniques in HKD

    The "13th" tech of every discipline is just a combination or "flow" of the original 12
     
  9. iron_ox

    iron_ox Black Belt

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    What organization are you with? This configuration of material does sound familiar...
     
  10. bushido

    bushido Yellow Belt

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    World HapKiDo Federation, although GM Hwang was also formerly associated with the Korea Hapkido Association. He was the head instructor at KHA back in the late 70's I believe it was Kevin.
    [h=1][/h]
     
  11. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    When I was taught Hapkido, I was taught that at the moment of attack, I should not really think about what technique to use, but should simply react with a technique that was appropriate for the kind of attack. Trying to decide on a techique as an attack is coming to you could indeed be worrisome.

    As to the original post, I remember seeing this before and I don't know for sure why I didn't comment. However, I am inclined to think of all the 'variations' described as separate techniques in most cases are separate techniques, just for the reason I mentioned above. I want my body to react to an attack. I don't want to be thinking after I have blocked, should I add a kick, or a lock, or strike a nerve point. I want my body to react with a certain set of moves that are known to be effective. When I do, in the event the defense should not work, and I haven't left myself exposed (as we normally don't in Hapkido), I would either move into another technique, or retreat and await another attack and response.

    It may sound like I am saying the same thing as others here, but I think there is a distinction.
     
  12. Dwi Chugi

    Dwi Chugi Orange Belt

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    I could not agree with you more. If your body does not react to a treat, then most likely you will be struck prior to thinking of an appropriate response.

    In MuSool Hapkido our training falls more onto the principles of a technique then specific techniques. How do you step, where do you want the hand or arm on a throw, how do you grab the hand or arm so that your attacker does not get away, etc.

    Techniques up to green belt (the first year of training) are more hoshinsool in nature and include falling and safely getting up, three basic hand strikes, four kicks, stepping used to close the gap or create space, taking away the attackers arsenal, getting a basic throw, some minor ground defense, some minor grab defense and some kicking defense. There are ten instructional classes and two review classes and then the curriculum repeats until the student has the above mastered.

    By green belt my students should be able to safely defend themselves in a street altercation and get away from a larger, stronger attacker with no or little martial arts experience. Most to the attacks will come from those type of people.

    From green belt to purple belt, my students arsenal is expanded with some large circle throws, some wrist locks/throws, arm/elbow locks and takedowns all from inside of an attack. We also add two more kicks and two or three more strikes and a handful of ground defense techniques. The student will be envesting another year to two years, learning these techniques.

    Purple to brown belt, we continue on the same type of locks and throws that are in the green belt to purple belt but the defense comes from outside of the attack. Purple to brown belt takes another year or two.

    Brown belt to black belt we really focus on kicking defense. White to green belt has a few kicking defenses but we really expand on it. We also work on controlling someone (without rolling around with them) after the throw or takedown. This is really good for LEO's.

    I would say from white belt to black belt we work on 50 or so techniques and the principles (and variations) on how and why we throw the said techniques. If you add all the variations and principles it is a lot more. After the black belt we expand the techniques while mataining the principles and theories already instructed.

    My two cents. Thanks for reading.
     
  13. Instructor

    Instructor Master Black Belt

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    How many techniques in our program?

    I dunno, still learning them...

    When in doubt just grab something and rotate it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
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  14. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    The best thing to do is a goose neck..or maybe a bent wrist...or maybe a 'swan sees own reflection'..wait, they're all the same thing! :uhyeah:
     
  15. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Interesting. My thread was revived. I had forgotten about this one, but the recent responses are appreciated.
     
  16. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    Over 3,000 and there is not such thing as amateur or even average Dojang master knowing that many only few deciples or one who trained with original pioneer as a deciple of Grandmaster now Supreme Grand Master Yong-Sool Choi Founder of Modern Hapkido as stated by Grand Master Dr. Jung Hwan Park as I take as my Master and authority on Hapkido. Until Ryukyu Kempo Kyushio Jitsu there was nothing better for a TKD person to transition to.

    In GM Park's own words his Hapkido was what any person over 40 in TKD should transition to to better defend themsleves but for my part in the healing arts also the spiritual side for self healing has become significant as well those of you who know understand.
     
  17. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    Regardless of the art its rediculous to think of hundreds or thousands of techinques when confronted I teach a tool belt you have your best 10 on your belt at all times thats what you go to after that its about natural progression I like targets of opportunity what fits whats natural every body and size is different react move or die get your *** beat if you cannot adapt? alot comes from decades of experience and natural chi flow no one with 2-4 years has that some never some not untill 10-15 years
     
  18. Dwi Chugi

    Dwi Chugi Orange Belt

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    Master Dan, we come from the same line of Hapkido (Dr Park). He's quite a man!
     
  19. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    He truly is when introduced to him my life long master said they were brothers and they both had stories of the war and how they survived. In 1997 I was told that at one time he was considered #1 #2 related to speed with knives and weopons. I found his personal teaching very profound and practical especially his knife fighting methods knife on knife, or hand to knife or knife to hand.
     
  20. Dwi Chugi

    Dwi Chugi Orange Belt

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    Here is part of an instructional video he put out in 91 or 92. The demo in the video with the knives and Kama are from 88/89. I was at these events. The music is very 80's and the narrator keeps calling Yong Sool Choi a General which he was not, I think he mixed up with general Choi, Hi. But other than that, I like the video.

    http://youtu.be/k7a9ZJiozWk
     

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