What Daniel and Julie asked Miyagi about belts and how Miyagi responded would be like somebody visiting a dojo and asking how long it takes to get a black belt and the instructor saying that they don't have belts of rank as not all arts do.
Just because Port Moresby is the way it is doesn't mean it can't be changed and doesn't mean there aren't people working to change it and it doesn't mean you shouldn't voice your opinion about how it could be changed, and that goes not just for Port Moresby but the rest of the world too and everything in it.
Port Moresby has been like that for decades, probably since before most of us here were born. Whatever the solution to the problem is, it has been thought of and tried, to no avail.
Yes, you have said this before so why again?
I posted the original post of this thread back in June last year. At the time yes it has been discussed before about how first degree black belt often means you're just a serious beginner not a master or an expert. But I don't recall at any time before then where I pointed out the contradiction about how they consider you a just a serious beginner if you're a first degree black belt but at the same time make first degree black belt really hard to get. That is a contradiction if you think about it. If a certain belt symbolizes that you're just a serious beginner, not a master or an expert, than said belt should be easy to get. If it's hard to get it would mean that you're more than just a serious beginner, if not a master you should at least be considered an expert, if said belt is hard to get.
Or she could learn to defend herself, and hope she doesn't get in trouble for doing so.
Again. This is only in your mind. This is your own contradiction and not a "Martial Arts" one.
It's been mentioned on this thread that the first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert. I don't recall who said that and I wouldn't mention any names even if I did know but it's been said on here before.
That's all fine and dandy if you know what the required work is. Success is not just a product of working hard, it's also a product of working smart.
True, you do go through that circular path of learning.
Does Jow Ga have ranks? I thought it didn't but I could be wrong. But whether you're a beginner or not I suppose is relative and depends on one's point of view. From your point of view you were a beginner and from other people's point of view you weren't.
Yes I know that from my own experience.
As I said before, whether or not you're a beginner I suppose is relative. A first degree black belt would not be seen as a beginner from the viewpoint of a white belt but they might be seen as a beginner from the viewpoint of a third degree black belt.
Nope I never thought that. If I did think that I would quit after making black belt. If that were the case everybody would quit after making black belt. After all, if you know it all and there is nothing new for you to learn, what's the point of still doing it?
Exactly. And that was why getting my first black belt at the first dojo that I started seriously training at was so important to me, because I wanted to reach that level where I could reach new worlds, new possibilities, new understandings, ect. I wanted to reach that level where the real learning began.
Yes, I've done some of that myself.
From my experience, balance is taught very early on, sometimes on day one. Balance was one of the first things Mr. Miyagi taught Daniel after he had him wax his cars and sand his deck and paint his fence and house, when Daniel was practicing while standing on the boat. And balance drills are taught very early in real classes not just in the movies, I've never seen students practicing on boats but they do other balance drills.
As I said, they go through a circular path of learning.
Once again, it depends on one's point of view.
You said before about checking out the dojo's website. A website might or might not have the information you're looking for so if a dojo's website doesn't have the information you want, including how long on the average it takes to get a black belt at that dojo, the only way for you to know is to ask. That means you will have to take the risk of getting sonned if you want that information. If you do get sonned it's not the end of the world, you can always go to a different dojo.
If I was asked that question, I would state that it depends on the student. So far, I haven’t ever had a prospective student ask me this question.
So do you teach? If so what style and for how long?
Yes, I teach TSD. I have been an instructor since the late 80s. I understand the motivation behind the question, but my response would remain the same. Since progression requires demonstrating proficiency in various skills, the student would determine how fast they progress. Some take much longer than others. I began as a young child and it took me more than twice as long to earn Cho Dan than the teenagers since I had to develop my fine motor skills.
I also said to check the website of the association to which the dojo belongs. If it's not there, you can also check websites of other dojos that belong to the same association. If you're going to ask... if you absolutely must, then exhaust all other efforts first and make asking your last resort.
And if there are other dojos in the area where the information is available, you can simply narrow it down to those dojos only. And that's IF the need to know is that important to you.
So if you've been teaching for that long there must be many students who've made black belt under you during the time you're teaching. The time its taken each student would certainly vary but there must be an average that you could calculate or estimate.
That makes sense, when you're a small child and still developing it will take you longer than somebody who is more developed. It will take an 8 year old longer than a 14 year old to develop skills because the 8 year old is far less developed.
I understand the answer that you are looking for, but my response remains the same. I could have two students of the same age where one takes twice as long as the other. It really depends on how committed the student is.
The dojo might not belong to any association. It could be a privately run dojo that functions independently of any associations. A website for any dojo, whether said dojo is part of an association or not, or for that matter a website for any association, might not have every bit of information that everybody who checks it out wants. You seem to be very opposed to asking, what's the worst that can happen? As I said before being sonned is not the end of the world.
I can understand why you would do that when you're shopping for a car, new or used. I know the games they play with auto sales. But it's not the same with the martial arts. A dojo is not a car dealership and a sensei is not a car salesman.
Why would I want to treat it the same way? As I said it's different. I don't particularly think that not disclosing information somebody might want on a website is unethical as stuff can be overlooked on websites but if somebody comes in and asks I do think its unethical for the instructor to give a silly answer, such as a student asking how long it takes to get a black belt and the instructor saying that they cost five bucks or whatever. But even if an instructor does give you such an answer, you can always leave.
You could do that but I don't see any reason to not be straightforward when it comes to asking for what you want. For instance, you can ask about any minimum time requirement to get from 1st kyu to 1st dan and you will probably get the same answer that you have to be at 1st kyu for at least a year before you're eligible for 1st dan. I don't see any need to be slick or sneaky about asking. There's nothing unreasonable about asking about how the dojo is run, including any minimum time requirements for belts.
So your answer would be that it depends on the student as you've pointed out, and yes there are other factors besides age when determining how long it would take such as how often the student comes to class, how much they put into it, ect. Nevertheless there is probably an average on how long it takes a student to get a black belt at your dojo. Obviously not all students would meet that average but there would be an average when you take into account how long it took the longest student and how long it took the student who did it the quickest, and all the students in between. Also there might be a minimum time requirement at your dojo that somebody might ask about, such as at the Goju Ryu dojo that I go to you have to be a student there for at least five years before you're eligible for the black belt. And then there's a range when it comes to the length of time it takes students to get black belts, for instance you might say, "It can take anywhere from five to ten years to get a black belt at this dojo," if that's the case.
I could, but I don’t want to give an unknown student unrealistic expectations. I honestly won’t know until I observe the student in class. Every student will know what is required of them for the next gup or dan.
And if that's the case, then I personally would want nothing to do with that place. Why are dan grades often referred to as "degrees"? Because they're credentials. And credentials are only as good as how widely recognized they are. But if you don't care about that, then more power to you.
I can only picture someone who is used to it saying this.
When someone's looking at the car they want, the first thing they want to know is "how much?" By omitting the price for the listing and having you come in, the car salesman is going to try to convince you to look beyond the price.
You could. But, once again, I'm not going to a car lot that omits the prices from any of their listings, as long as there are other car lots in the area that don't do this.
I could. But I'm also used too used to being talked to like an adult, and I like to keep it that way.
