Cleaning the dojo.

[chinto01]

I was giving some thought to my past years in the arts and I was thinking about the following. Under my first instructor after training the entire class with the exception of the dan ranks cleaned the entire dojo. Back then I did not think that much about it or why we did it. When I asked some of the higher ranks in the dojo why we did it I was told "because sensei told us to." I accepted that answer and did my part if the cleaning.

It was not until I left that dojo that I found out the true meaning of this act. It was explained to me that in the past when students could not pay for their lessons they did chores around their sensei's house or farm to repay them for their knowledge. Kind of cool when you actually think about it.

To make a long story short has this particular instance happend to anyone else? Do we as students do things "because sensei told us to"? I believe that if explained the right way the task of cleaning the dojo would have been looked upon differently not just by me but by the others who used to attend this dojo. Just to take this a step further there we also cases of this particular sensei asking to have his car washed by under dan ranks also. Maybe he did not know the true meaning of the dojo cleaning story also.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Drac]

Back when I studied the lowest white belt was supposed to clean the dojo floor prior to class.

 

[MJS]

Yes, I have heard of people 'paying' part of their dues by doing things around the dojo. There is a thread around on that very subject. If someone was having a hard time, money wise, cleaning, assisting with classes, etc., were things done in exchange for money.

What you're describing sounds different though. Now, I believe that the dojo, while technically is not owned by the students, its still 'their' training place, a second home, etc. so yes, I really dont see anything wrong with people helping to put equipment away and things of that nature. As far as washing the car...well, that seems a bit much IMO.

Mike

 

[chinto01]

Mike these were full paying students cleaning the dojo after class with no explanation as to why they were doing it. I know when I train with my sensei on Okinawa someone will sweep the dojo floor before every class no matter what their rank.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Tez3]

Er chaps, you clean the Dojo because you dirtied it.

 

[Kacey]

My students sweep the floor before class, and it has nothing to do with dues or "because sahbum says so" - it's because our class is in a YMCA, in a room used by other classes (aerobics, pilates, and dance) who all wear shoes (we don't), so for the sake of our own feet, whoever gets there first sweeps the floor.

As far as students doing chores to pay dues, I have no problem with it - since the YMCA provides scholarships for students, I haven't had that problem, but I do have some students who can't afford their gear (doboks, pads, etc.), and I have paid for their gear in exchange for them doing work for me - but that's a little different, I think. I don't expect them to clean my house, mow and edge my grass, weed my yard (all chores I've had students do) - I pay them, by buying their equipment for them.

I have no problem expecting students to help maintain the facility in which the class is held - as with the sweeping, sometimes equipment used by other classes is not put away, and it is in the students' best interest to help put it away; it makes more space in the room to actually hold class, and no one has ever objected to that type of chore.

When we have tournaments, we ask students to come early (or the night before, depending on our access to the facility) and help set up - again, in their best interest, because if we don't, we don't start on time, and thus we don't end on time. Again, while some students haven't been available, or haven't had transportation, all the ones who had the time in their schedules have been willing to volunteer.

If, however, I were to require my students to do household chores, wash my car, or otherwise do my work for me, just because I say so, I would consider that a misuse of my authority as an instructor, and proof that I've let my rank and position go to my head. Noblesse oblige should apply in MA situations.

 

[Drac]

I know when I train with my sensei on Okinawa someone will sweep the dojo floor before every class no matter what their rank.

Shorin-Ryu was my first discipline and the cleaning was done by the White Belts...If there were no Whites then the Yellows...

 

[jks9199]

In some styles, cleaning the floor after practice is a tradition. As Tez said -- it's because YOU made the mess; it's about spirit and even humility, too. If you look around, Dave Lowry wrote one of his Black Belt magazine columns about this practice.

And... sometimes, it might be a way of contributing in lieu (or along with) payment.

 

[Jdokan]

Thanks Guys!!! knowing how so many people read this forum....I'll to split my own firewood....

 

[Tez3]

Are you telling us that men will happily clean, sweep, mop etc if they think it's.....

A. spiritual

B. paying off a debt

C. for their own comfort

D. it's seen as manly when doing it in the dojo?

:lfao::lfao:

 

[Shotochem]

Are you telling us that men will happily clean, sweep, mop etc if they think it's.....

A. spiritual

B. paying off a debt

C. for their own comfort

D. it's seen as manly when doing it in the dojo?

:lfao::lfao:

Ha!!! At home I do all of that and more. I even cook and do laundry.

After all those years of training it is still safer to do so....:whip:

Yes Dear.....:wink1:

-Marc-

 

[DavidCC]

Are you telling us that men will happily clean, sweep, mop etc if they think it's.....

A. spiritual

B. paying off a debt

C. for their own comfort

D. it's seen as manly when doing it in the dojo?

:lfao::lfao:

Only if they are convinced that ALL 4 of these are true at the same time. Or if we think we might "get lucky", which could really fall into all 4 of these categories anyway.

 

[DavidCC]

It is my job to clean our entire dojo. I am on the "Assistant Instructor Training Program" so I am taught all aspects of owning and running a school. I teach classes, do paperwork, sign-up new students, talk to prospects, clean bathrooms, organize seminars, etc etc.

I dust -everything-, vaccuum the entire floor (30x50), clean the bathrooms, polish the mirrors, clean the windows, water the plants and take out the trash. It takes about 2 hours, every Monday. And yes my wife is jealous, wishing I would do so much around the house.

New students and parents often ask me "do you get free lessons or something for doing all the cleaning?" LOL no just the opposite, I paid for the privilege :whip1:

At our other school they have 5 Assistant Instructors, they all help do the cleaning. Lucky SOBs!

But what I have learned is that a clean dojo is important, and that my own school one day will be financially successful at least in some small way if I can afford to pay someone else to clean it!!!

-David

 

[Carol]

Many things that may have been done in older times are illegal under U.S. law. It's a violation of federal and state labor laws for a business to ask someone to work without pay. If a minor child is asked to do so, that becomes a more serious violation. Its also violation of many tax laws for a business to engage in barter and not document the benefit on their taxes. Any school that does any of these should be doing so only under the specific advise and counsel of a well-qualified attorney in their state. Otherwise they are setting themselves up for trouble.

 

[Balrog]

I'm the chief instructor and I clean the school. Kinda.

Over the years, I have learned to be actively cleaning the school in some way when the students start to arrive. Some of the students will volunteer to help in some way or take it over completely. I treasure these students because they are going to be my future Black Belts and Instructor Trainees.

They are showing courtesy and willingness to assume responsibility, two big signs that these are future leaders.

 

[Kacey]

I'm the chief instructor and I clean the school. Kinda.

Over the years, I have learned to be actively cleaning the school in some way when the students start to arrive. Some of the students will volunteer to help in some way or take it over completely. I treasure these students because they are going to be my future Black Belts and Instructor Trainees.

They are showing courtesy and willingness to assume responsibility, two big signs that these are future leaders.

Nicely stated. :asian:

 

[Lynne]

In our Dojang, our instructors (all black belts) do the cleaning. I guess it keeps 'em humble.

 

[Lynne]

Regarding my previous post, I think I will stick around to help out. I'm sure the help would be appreciated. We take it for granted because we aren't the ones who have to do it. Come to think of it, I think it would be a good lesson for my daughter.

 

[chinto01]

I notice that a lot of people do not mind sticking aroud to clean the dojo. Kudos, there are not many around like you anymore!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Nomad]

There are lots of good reasons to clean the dojo...

1. Pride of ownership. It's your dojo, do you really want it to look shabby when visitors come in?

2. To contribute. This is a small way to "give back" to your instructors and show your gratitude for what they are doing.

3. Humility. Sometimes it's just a good idea to come off your high horse as the "king of sparring" (or fount of martial knowledge or whatever other title you prefer) and push a broom around.

4. It can actually keep fees down, as they don't have to pay someone to come in and clean it.

5. Probably a few others that I'm not thinking of right now.

Carol; this type of law is one reason why it's safer to just start doing the task yourself. If someone (frequently a lower belt) volunteers to help, that can hardly be constituted as "asking someone to work without pay". Asking for volunteers is probably more of a grey area... it would be interesting (intellectually) to see how a court handled something like this (probably not well, IMO).