Carrying a Baton

[Anarax]

Correct. And ideally, this will happen in front of witnesses or on a security camera so your version of events can be corroborated.

I will say this. If you actually had to use a weapon to defend yourself, what you do after the fight is over may be the difference between getting charged and not getting charged. That said, you might still wind up getting charged as it comes down to prosecutorial discretion. And if your vision of a prosecutor is a seasoned veteran with 20 or 30 years experience and a lot of time to investigate and mull things over, think again. As often as not, it is an overworked 27 year old assistant dar sifting through dozens of police reports..

That's why I said to know the use of force and self-defense laws in your area. You can find cases that both support and oppose your view in this situation, no matter what it is. There are many factors that go into being arrested, charged and tried in a court of law. It's good to consult with a lawyer before you have to defend yourself to know what to say and how to say it to police after a self-defense scenario.

 

[Tez3]

You're not supposed to whip you knife out at the first sign of trouble.

This is the problem with the gang knife crime we are seeing at the moment. someone carries a knife and because they do the temptation to use it is too much and because they do, others carry knives and they use them as well, it escalates. these are young teenagers feeling their oats, they want to prove themselves, there's also peer pressure, an age old problem. it's not symptomatic of anything else other than young males (and now young females) wanting to make their mark in the worst possible way.

When people carry weapons the first thought is often to use them before anything else. Weaker people often will use weapons more easily because they think they give them an advantage against stronger people.

it's all well and good telling us who live in countries where weapons are uncommon and rarely carried that we are somehow 'less' than those who carry weapons but because we don't we don't resort to using them as easily as people who have the perception ( mostly because it's true) that everyone has a weapon of some sort. It's a very different cultural difference. I'm not sure that people actually realise there is a big difference between the US and Europe in many things policing, laws and politics. We assume because we've known each other so long that we have more in common than we do and tend to assume that we know what life is like in each others countries so can make statements about violence, crime etc. The truth is I have little idea of what life is like in any American town, city or village so I don't tell people they are wrong about carrying guns because I simply don't know.

Now the reverse is also true, most people don't know what it is like living in British cities, towns and villages, we are five different countries with a couple of Crown Dependencies, each with differing laws, we have a culture of not carrying weapons with the subject rarely comes up in political discussions, the crime figures for each country vary because of the way figures are reported. Here those killed in terrorist attacks such as the Manchester Arena are counted in the homicide figures, as are people murdered overseas including military killed in attacks by insurgents.

The fact we don't carry weapons doesn't mean we are helpless or unaware of the dangers the world carries, it means we know our countries better than outsiders, it means we know what the dangers to us are and we cope with them. There is a tendency to assume non weapon carrying means being naïve and we get looked down on, our weapons laws are mocked and many assume an air of superiority but really they should actually just stick to what they know and leave us to worry about here.

 

[pdg]

The truth is I have little idea of what life is like in any American town, city or village so I don't tell people they are wrong about carrying guns because I simply don't know.

That was kind of what I was getting at, but worded better.

If someone feels they need to be armed I'm curious as to why - is it based on media reports, reputation or personal experience of previous encounters?

The reply of "planet earth" suggests that person thinks the whole world is a place where it's not safe to ever be unarmed - yet there are literally millions of people who go through their entire lives without so much as a scuffle.

Maybe it really is mortally dangerous to venture out in your location so carrying a personal arsenal is warranted - hence my initial question.

 

[pdg]

To illustrate where I'm coming from, over the past month there have been two "violent incidents" deemed newsworthy in my local city and the surrounding area.

In one, a young boy was "threatened with a pocket knife" - he managed to escape with his life by leaving the area.

In the other, there was an argument in a pub garden

A man aged in his forties was punched several times during the assault which resulted in a lump and pain to his head

I have to go to town for work later, best not forget my bren...

 

[wab25]

I don't recommend carrying a baton with you, for the reasons already listed... mainly it makes the legal side messy.

However, I really recommend training with the hanbo. There are a ton of different ways to use one. But what I really like is that if you can find something between 12 inches and 4 feet in length... all of a sudden you have a bunch of options you would not have had with just your hands. Sure, you won't be able to do all the hanbo techniques with everything you can pick up, but you should be able to do a few. Walking stick, umbrella, wrench, stick, rolled up magazine... there are lots of things.

I took a hanbo class from a guy that taught the police to use their batons. He said that in many states, you can't carry a weapon like a baton. But, you can carry a long lug nut wrench in your car for more leverage when changing your tire, you can carry a flashlight in your car that is a three cell flashlight with an aluminum body to see, you can carry a wooden handled window washing tool to clean your windshield even if the sponge part has a hard time staying on... He suggested we have something of that shape in our cars to be used to work on the car.

I also like learning to use the yawara stick and or a kubotan. While you can't carry one of those, you can carry a pen, and apply most of those techniques as well. I would not suggest a tactical pen, way too expensive and you then run the risk of the legal carrying a weapon thing. But, I can go to the office supply store and get a 2 pack of aluminum body pens for $3, that write really well. (you don't really need aircraft grade aluminum to get your point across... regular old, cheap aluminum will do just fine)

Training hanbo and yawara will open up a lot of improvised weapons for you.... that you could carry for their intended uses or you might even be able to find nearby.

 

[Anarax]

This is the problem with the gang knife crime we are seeing at the moment. someone carries a knife and because they do the temptation to use it is too much and because they do, others carry knives and they use them as well, it escalates. these are young teenagers feeling their oats, they want to prove themselves, there's also peer pressure, an age old problem. it's not symptomatic of anything else other than young males (and now young females) wanting to make their mark in the worst possible way.

That's a serious problem

When people carry weapons the first thought is often to use them before anything else.

If you're referring to gangs and criminals then I agree. However, if that's referring to weapon carriers in general then I disagree. There are definitely those that reach for the weapon too quickly, but there are also carriers who are well trained and have the temperament for it. Like any group there's good and bad.

Weaker people often will use weapons more easily because they think they give them an advantage against stronger people.

Yes, but there's a spectrum of force and power discrepancy. Meaning if I stabbed a man to death who only struck me then I'm probably going to prison. However, if an 80 year old woman shot a younger man twice her size for striking her down then that will probably be ruled justified. This is based on the old woman had no other means of defending herself thus shooting him was the only option she had. She doesn't possess the same physical faculties than myself or someone similar in age and size would.

it's all well and good telling us who live in countries where weapons are uncommon and rarely carried that we are somehow 'less' than those who carry weapons but because we don't we don't resort to using them as easily as people who have the perception ( mostly because it's true) that everyone has a weapon of some sort.

I don't criticize other people who don't carry nor other countries that don't allow it. I feel the same way you do when others criticize me for carrying or criticize US weapon policies.

The fact we don't carry weapons doesn't mean we are helpless or unaware of the dangers the world carries

I agree that line of reasoning is flawed and illogical. There's a whole list of reasons why many choose not to carry even where it's legal.

There is a tendency to assume non weapon carrying means being naïve and we get looked down on, our weapons laws are mocked and many assume an air of superiority but really they should actually just stick to what they know and leave us to worry about here.

I agree that there's a subculture that looks down on others that don't carry, I've met them in person. More times than not they like to refer to people without weapons as "sheep" and view themselves as a superior breed of human. I can't stand people like that either, but there are also a lot of weapon carriers that are respectful.

What I've seen in this thread and others is a tendency for some to question people who carry weapons. They then criticize their answer and explain to them why they don't carry. This is where some more of the argumentative side comes into play. When you ask someone of an opposing ideology why they subscribe to an opposing ideology, prepare for an answer that will obviously conflict with your ideology. For example, if I'm Veagn(I'm not) and a meat eater were to ask me why am I Vegan, I'll tell them because livestock is treated cruelly. That person will then feel obligated to defend eating meat because they asked someone of an opposing ideology of why they don't something they themselves do. Weaponry in general is a controversial topic, thus is why I think it's next to impossible for two people of opposing views to have a productive conversation. I think most of the time it's about "proving" the other person wrong than it is about seeing it from their point of view.

 

[pdg]

What I've seen in this thread and others is a tendency for some to question people who carry weapons. They then criticize their answer and explain to them why they don't carry. This is where some more of the argumentative side comes into play

If this is in reference to my post, I think it was taken wrong.

I have no experience of living somewhere that I've felt the need to arm myself - if I did live in such an area I would carry without hesitation (or move if that option exists).

My question was more about whether it was really that much of an issue - hence the "where do you live" part. Getting an answer from someone else saying "planet earth" suggests they wouldn't go anywhere on earth without being armed, which is actually quite a sad position to find oneself in imo.

 

[Buka]

And sometimes I still carry. And if you're in danger I'll help you.

 

[Tez3]

If you're referring to gangs and criminals then I agree. However, if that's referring to weapon carriers in general then I disagree. There are definitely those that reach for the weapon too quickly, but there are also carriers who are well trained and have the temperament for it. Like any group there's good and bad.

It's simpler for us here, we don't have legal carriers so that takes them out of the equation.

I don't comment on American gun carriers or non carriers, it would be good if the courtesy was returned by some though.

I agree that there's a subculture that looks down on others that don't carry, I've met them in person. More times than not they like to refer to people without weapons as "sheep" and view themselves as a superior breed of human. I can't stand people like that either, but there are also a lot of weapon carriers that are respectful.

People who call people sheep obviously don't know much about sheep especially tups who will kill people, we've had a couple of deaths here. Sheep are intelligent enough to know how to protect all the sheep in the flock, they have great survival skills and are easily as intelligent as dogs, proven by science btw.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you're referring to gangs and criminals then I agree. However, if that's referring to weapon carriers in general then I disagree. There are definitely those that reach for the weapon too quickly, but there are also carriers who are well trained and have the temperament for it. Like any group there's good and bad.

I've noticed that responsible weapon-carriers often become extra-cautious about avoiding and resolving conflict. It's one thing to get into a shoving match. It's another thing to get into a shoving match with a gun on your hip.

 

[Tez3]

I've noticed that responsible weapon-carriers often become extra-cautious about avoiding and resolving conflict. It's one thing to get into a shoving match. It's another thing to get into a shoving match with a gun on your hip.

The important word here is 'responsible' though. However that requires they maintain a cool head, often the 'fear' factor comes into play which is what happens as I said in the gang killings we have at the moment in London. Scared people will likely shoot/stab whatever more than a steady person. You can be a responsible person but if you are terrified for your life or others then the chances are you will attack first. Now, here at least that is legal self defence, whether it's advisable depends on whether you nullify the danger or not.

 

[Runs With Fire]

IMO, a collapsible baton isn't a horrible choice to carry for self-defense situations if you know how to use them. You must first know the laws in you area of weapon restrictions and use of force. Carrying around any weapon without knowing when and when not to draw them is a recipe for disaster. You must also be trained on how to use the baton so you can use it effectively. A baton offers a wider spectrum of lethal and less than lethal force opposed to a knife. Meaning, a baton can be used for locks, chokes, takedowns and disarms. Either way, be sure to have all the facts and information on baton use before getting one.

Just don't get a cheap one. I was at a conference in a class on using the expandable batton. They had a box of cheap ones for each student to use in the class, and take home. Half of them didn't make it through the first hour ling session. They flew apart upon flicking them open.

 

[Billy02]

Where do you live that you feel the need to be armed all the time? (Taking both your threads into account.)

How many times have you actually been called upon to try to defend yourself?

Your profile says you're 28, you come across more as a paranoid teenager...

i have been mugged twice, so i think one should be prepared for any situation, age does not matter i think in these situations. any one can come under such situations. Buy Tactical Heat Tempered Square Grip Flashlight Baton 26 in Online at Lowest Price this is what i think i use get, as it has flash and seems it will be easy to use, plus i will have to see if the state law allows it to carry.

 

[Anarax]

I have no experience of living somewhere that I've felt the need to arm myself - if I did live in such an area I would carry without hesitation (or move if that option exists).

Geographical location isn't the sole factor when people decide to carry a weapon. Other factors include past experiences, exposure to criminal elements(Police, Prison guards, Judges, etc), weapon proficiency, upbringing(both positive and negative), physical limitations and wanting to lawfully carry a firearm in case of potentially lethal encounters. There are other factors that play into it, I'm just touching on the major ones.

Getting an answer from someone else saying "planet earth" suggests they wouldn't go anywhere on earth without being armed, which is actually quite a sad position to find oneself in imo.

There's nothing sad about it. If you're obeying the law and proficient with the weapon then there's no problem. Again, it's not about how you feel what others should and shouldn't do. It's about acknowledging how some have different preferences than you do. Some are more cautious than others, but that doesn't make it "sad".

How many times have you actually been called upon to try to defend yourself?
Your profile says you're 28, you come across more as a paranoid teenager...

Wanting to lawfully carry a weapon doesn't make you paranoid, it's simply preparing for a potential altercation.

I must live on a different planet then, because I've never felt the need to arm myself to leave the house.

You're only seeing it through your eyes and not from their point of view. If that's the intention of your post, to better understand their point of view, then that's great. However, calling them "paranoid" or their outlook "sad" isn't the best approach.

Do you really think it's impossible that there exist places where there's not really anything to be especially aware of or prepare for?
I've made it almost to 41 and been attacked, erm, let me count.....
.... no times at all.

By the same reasoning only people who have been attacked should study martial arts for self-defense. It's the idea of waiting for something bad to happen then taking precautions in the future to prevent it from reoccurring. Some people don't wait though, some choose to be more proactive than your average person.

 

[Anarax]

I don't comment on American gun carriers or non carriers, it would be good if the courtesy was returned by some though.

That's more than fair, but a lot of people get heated over this issue on both sides. I think that's why it usually gets personal and more argumentative

People who call people sheep obviously don't know much about sheep especially tups who will kill people, we've had a couple of deaths here. Sheep are intelligent enough to know how to protect all the sheep in the flock, they have great survival skills and are easily as intelligent as dogs, proven by science btw.

Yeah, it's just the vernacular they use. They like to see themselves as "wolves" that protect the flock. They like to think they're enlightened and better than everyone else.

 

[Anarax]

I've noticed that responsible weapon-carriers often become extra-cautious about avoiding and resolving conflict. It's one thing to get into a shoving match. It's another thing to get into a shoving match with a gun on your hip.

I've noticed this too, they usually want to avoid the conflict all together. Most of the weapon carriers I've met are pretty chill.

 

[Anarax]

Just don't get a cheap one. I was at a conference in a class on using the expandable batton. They had a box of cheap ones for each student to use in the class, and take home. Half of them didn't make it through the first hour ling session. They flew apart upon flicking them open.

Absolutely, there are a lot of cheap ones out there you want to avoid. Monadnock, ASP and some of the S&W heat treated batons supposed to be good.

 

[Tez3]

If you're obeying the law and proficient with the weapon then there's no problem.

In many countries those two are mutually exclusive. Carrying weapons isn't legal however proficient you are.

Wanting to lawfully carry a weapon doesn't make you paranoid, it's simply preparing for a potential altercation.

It does often seem like that though when you read what people say about why they want to carry a gun. It would appear in the UK as well as most of Europe and I suspect Australia as well as New Zealand to be not just paranoid but dangerous. To all our perceptions carrying weapons 'just in case' seems unnecessary because of the way we live, our countries and well, just everything. To us living in a country where you think you have to carry weapons is unimaginable. this is why I think so many comment on the 'gun thing' in the US, we simply cannot imagine doing it so it's weird to us.

You're only seeing it through your eyes and not from their point of view. If that's the intention of your post, to better understand their point of view, then that's great. However, calling them "paranoid" or their outlook "sad" isn't the best approach.

As I've said above, it's unimaginable to us. To feel you have to carry weapons is something that many in the rest of the world don't understand at all and seems verging on madness or living in a war torn country hence there are many comments that weapon carrying people won't like or in turn don't understand.

 

[Tez3]

i have been mugged twice,

have you thought why? Are there actions you are taking that could be changed that would mean you would be in less danger of being mugged? Do you feel that if you carried a baton it would prevent a mugging or would escalate the situation and leave you worse off? Batons aren't an ideal weapon for civilians quite frankly.

 

[pdg]

You're only seeing it through your eyes and not from their point of view. If that's the intention of your post, to better understand their point of view, then that's great. However, calling them "paranoid" or their outlook "sad" isn't the best approach.

By using the term "paranoid teenager" I'm referring to the attitude displayed by some youths here, where they have the thought that they're going to get attacked every time they open their eyes.

What led me to that is my interpretation of the OP being along the lines of "I must carry a weapon at all times, everyone is a threat"...

As for sad, well that's down to how you define the word.

It saddens me that some people's experience of their society leads them to see danger everywhere and need a weapon to feel a bit more secure.

I'm not using the teenage vernacular and saying "you're sad" - I'm using English and saying "your situation saddens me".



Edit: and by your definition someone saying that "earth" is a place that's dangerous enough to arm yourself everywhere you go is only seeing it through their eyes.