Can a martial art kills?

[jobo]

I think the issue is that if the training is not applicable to fighting then the training won't really have that much impact on the outcome.

So bag only guy is on about even footing with no training guy.

no that doesn't make sense someone who has practised the power and accuracy of punches and kicks on a bag, should be much more able at punches and kicks than someone who never practises them

 

[Martial D]

no that doesn't make sense someone who has practised the power and accuracy of punches and kicks on a bag, should be much more able at punches and kicks than someone who never practises them

It's a different world when the bag hits back and moves around. Luckily for this guy and all his potential 'injury victims', they do not.

 

[drop bear]

no that doesn't make sense someone who has practised the power and accuracy of punches and kicks on a bag, should be much more able at punches and kicks than someone who never practises them

Yeah basically what martial d said. If you go to water mid flurry. Throw that time spent on bag work out the window.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah basically what martial d said. If you go to water mid flurry. Throw that time spent on bag work out the window.

I’d still argue bag work > no bag work.

 

[Paul_D]

Whilst you can practice, preemptive, non telegraphed strikes (with brain engagement to increase the chances of success) with a partner (aka sucker punches) you can't practice them with anything like the force you would use if you were defending yourself in a live situation. That can only be done on a bag, focus mit, dummy, etc.

 

[drop bear]

Whilst you can practice, preemptive, non telegraphed strikes (with brain engagement to increase the chances of success) with a partner (aka sucker punches) you can't practice them with anything like the force you would use if you were defending yourself in a live situation. That can only be done on a bag, focus mit, dummy, etc.

Knockout power that can't hit the target is pretty ineffective.

Remember untrained people have knock out power. So you are not Getting an advantage really.

 

[Paul_D]

Knockout power that can't hit the target is pretty ineffective.

That's why it's best not to use preemptive, non telegraphed strikes, proceed by brain engagement on Derren Brown, or Neo from The Matrix.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Knockout power that can't hit the target is pretty ineffective.

Remember untrained people have knock out power. So you are not Getting an advantage really.

Are you saying hitting a bag has no impact on power, aim, or distance judgement? Heck, once they start swinging a bit, there’s even some minor tuning involved. Certainly better than nothing, or boxers wouldn’t use them so ubiquitously. Just because it’s not paired with a live partner, you don’t lose all of the benefit. Remember, untrained people manage to hit the target.

 

[jobo]

It's a different world when the bag hits back and moves around. Luckily for this guy and all his potential 'injury victims', they do not.

well yes it is, but that's a,slightly different point, hitting bags doesn't simulate combat, but it is a necessity for practising your kicking and punching, unless you can get someone to let you kick them repeatedly whilst you work on power and co ordination

 

[jobo]

Knockout power that can't hit the target is pretty ineffective.

Remember untrained people have knock out power. So you are not Getting an advantage really.

well some do, others punch like a wet dish cloth, few untrained people can punch properly, even less can kick correctly, it takes practise and that takes a punch bag or similar

 

[lklawson]

Completely incorrect. It's the same virus as chicken pox. It never goes away, it just hibernates in your central nervous system. In short, if you never had chicken pox, you CANNOT have shingles. Which means you cannot have the chronic nerve pain, blindness, skin infections or brain damage caused by shingles.

You can, however, get chicken pox (if you're not vaccinated) from someone who has a shingles outbreak.

I had Chicken Pox as a child. The odds that I'll develop Shingles is pretty low but non-zero. I'll probably agree to Shingles vaccines when I hit the recommended age but I'm not really worried a whole lot about it.

That said, while Chicken Pox as a child was at the time seen as sort of a non-issue and a standard childhood ailment that you wanted your children to get (so they wouldn't get adult chicken pox), having it sucked SOOOO BAD that if there had been a vaccine available I would have insisted on it.

All these decades later and I still remember the utterly maddening itching that was wasn't allowed to scratch (but did anyway). The stinking sticky pink calamine lotion that I gratefully slathered on for even the tiny amount of relief it barely offered.

Gads! Just remembering it makes me want to go punch someone!

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

That's why it's best not to use preemptive, non telegraphed strikes, proceed by brain engagement on Derren Brown, or Neo from The Matrix.

Preemptive strikes are the bomb digidy but the thing you don't learn about them on the bag is he also gets a go at them.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I had Chicken Pox as a child. The odds that I'll develop Shingles is pretty low but non-zero. I'll probably agree to Shingles vaccines when I hit the recommended age but I'm not really worried a whole lot about it.

I've had three shingles outbreaks, which is not uncommon when you're undergoing chemo (or anything else that compromises your immune system). I'm not yet 60, but you can bet I'm getting the vaccine this year.

That said, while Chicken Pox as a child was at the time seen as sort of a non-issue and a standard childhood ailment that you wanted your children to get (so they wouldn't get adult chicken pox), having it sucked SOOOO BAD that if there had been a vaccine available I would have insisted on it.

Before vaccines, this was the best option. Childhood pox is absolutely better than having it as an adult.

All these decades later and I still remember the utterly maddening itching that was wasn't allowed to scratch (but did anyway). The stinking sticky pink calamine lotion that I gratefully slathered on for even the tiny amount of relief it barely offered.

Oatmeal baths seem to be better than calamine. Probably would have helped more if you'd known that as a child.

 

[oftheherd1]

Entirely off topic, but I thought shingles was more common with people who have not had chicken pox, so getting vaccinated actually would make it more likely later in life to get shingles. Is that incorrect?

Maybe your are thinking of the thought that if you had chicken pox, you were less likely to get measles. I don't think that is entirely true either, but it used to be an accepted belief.

Completely incorrect. It's the same virus as chicken pox. It never goes away, it just hibernates in your central nervous system. In short, if you never had chicken pox, you CANNOT have shingles. Which means you cannot have the chronic nerve pain, blindness, skin infections or brain damage caused by shingles.

You can, however, get chicken pox (if you're not vaccinated) from someone who has a shingles outbreak.

So is the shingles vaccination the same as the chicken pox vaccination? I had chicken pox as a kid, as did a lot of kids, but thankfully have not had shingles. Yet. I hope I never do.

 

[oftheherd1]

I've had three shingles outbreaks, which is not uncommon when you're undergoing chemo (or anything else that compromises your immune system). I'm not yet 60, but you can bet I'm getting the vaccine this year.



Before vaccines, this was the best option. Childhood pox is absolutely better than having it as an adult.



Oatmeal baths seem to be better than calamine. Probably would have helped more if you'd known that as a child.

You have my sympathies! Three outbreaks, wow.

Oatmeal baths I have heard of. I don't remember how my mother treated me other than keeping a very close watch on me so she could keep me from scratching. Wow I hated that! I wanted to scratch so bad! But oatmeal wasn't a treatment back then.

 

[drop bear]

Are you saying hitting a bag has no impact on power, aim, or distance judgement? Heck, once they start swinging a bit, there’s even some minor tuning involved. Certainly better than nothing, or boxers wouldn’t use them so ubiquitously. Just because it’s not paired with a live partner, you don’t lose all of the benefit. Remember, untrained people manage to hit the target.

Fine so you can probably hit the target with knockout power. Untrained people can hit the target with knockout power.

What real advantage do you have?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Fine so you can probably hit the target with knockout power. Untrained people can hit the target with knockout power.

What real advantage do you have?

For this hypothetical person, they should have better power than if they hadn't trained. And probably some better targeting than if they hadn't trained. Training rarely gives us something entirely new - it just teaches us how to do it better. Many of us grew up wrestling with siblings and friends, but that's not a valid reason not to train grappling.

 

[Paul_D]

For this hypothetical person, they should have better power than if they hadn't trained. And probably some better targeting than if they hadn't trained.

Oh my god what fresh hell is this, someone needs that explaining to them?

 

[drop bear]

Oh my god what fresh hell is this, someone needs that explaining to them?

Because people think that is the case. Where they dont get anywhere near the advantage they think they are getting.

 

[drop bear]

For this hypothetical person, they should have better power than if they hadn't trained. And probably some better targeting than if they hadn't trained. Training rarely gives us something entirely new - it just teaches us how to do it better. Many of us grew up wrestling with siblings and friends, but that's not a valid reason not to train grappling.

Unless they get hit and cannot compose themselves in time to be able to use that training. Then it is not really a fight based on martial arts ability.