Can a martial art kills?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by TigerHeart, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    And I forgot to mention in my tirade...

    If you think just because an attacker doesn’t want to fight means they won’t hit back, you’re dillusional. Most criminals that are going to do this type of thing have been around the block. They’re not afraid of getting hit. They can take a hit and give one back. The ones you’ve come across that don’t fit that mold are amateurs and won’t bother anyone again after they get smacked the first time. If you think they’re going to go into the fetal position and cry once they get hit, there’s genuinely nothing I can say. I can only shake my head and walk away.
     
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  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You have no idea how disappointed I was when I found out I couldn't just drop dudes at will during a street fight.

    That the culmination of my slick moves was I may have backed them off or bloodied them up a bit.

    I think the issue is that even guys who can fight will talk up the tales of themselves fighting.

    That both guys can walk away claiming victory. Or even that deescalation skills are determined by the size of the guy that I was potentially fighting.

    All you need then is a couple of repetitions and no one to varify and you get this mess of actual tested stuff, untested stuff and pure whimsy.
     
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  3. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Add to that...
    People walk through a dangerous neighborhood. A few shady looking people looked at them, and maybe one or two asked them if they know what time it is or for some change. They don’t respond and keep going, making it through the tough neighborhood without getting mugged, jumped, etc. Then they tell anyone who’ll listen that they successfully employed their soft SD skills. Sure. They know for a fact that every one of those people looking at them or asking them a question was trying to attack them. It’s too easy to say “prove they weren’t trying to attack me.”

    Some people are a bit too paranoid.

    I was never let down by the fact that I can’t drop anyone and everyone at will. I learned that before kindergarten and got reminded too many times throughout my youth.
     
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  4. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    yes, only yesterday i was in a very tough area, i live there, and two big dudes approached my asking for a light, they stood well within punching range, one directly in front one to the side, i gave them my lighter, they lit their cigs and gave me my lighter back and then walked off, this proves I'm a self defence expert , who put off their attack with my skills, or perhaps that they just wanted a light, hard to say
     
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  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Some videos of thefts.



    You still may have to fight them.
     
  6. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Your skills failed, as you allowed them into punching range. You should’ve “put up a fence” as they say. But you redeemed yourself by giving up your lighter and doing all that stuff that subconsciously made them think you’re not a good target. I’d put you at 2nd dan, not but not in 5th-10th dan “expert” status in SD. If you follow the resident SD expert’s logic, you failed at SD because 1) you shouldn’t have been there; and 2) you allowed them the opportunity to ask you for a light.

    I’m pretty sure they just needed a light. If they wanted more, they’d have probably went ahead. Unless of course they saw something you didn’t, like a cop (Bobbie in your English?) in their periphery.
     
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  7. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    Earlier today, I had a situation where I was in a bit of a bad area. I had about 30 addicts/ex-convicts/felons walk right by me, some of them so close they literally brushed against me. I then went into a room with 15 of them and closed the door for an hour! After that hour, they all got up, and I turned to face some of them, exposing my entire back to others.

    This isn't the first time it's happened either. I did the same thing yesterday, and all of last week. A couple times a day, I go in a room with just one of them alone, I don't do a 'visual pat down' or anything, who knows what they could bring with them.

    Pretty sure I would get a big fat F in SD. But, I'm also pretty sure if I followed SD procedure,

    A) I would not have a job because I would not show up to such a dangerous place.
    B) If I did show up, I would probably be fired for staying in a corner in the room and never addressing my clients unless I could do so in a way that let me look at all my clients at once.
    C) If I showed up, and somehow B didn't get me fired, I would definitely be fired for refusing to meet with any of my clients individually.

    The point I'm trying to make is that all the different SD tactics aren't always realistic, and just because you choose not to do one doesn't mean you "failed" at SD. Sometimes you have to forgo some SD tactics in order to function, and not be viewed as the crazy person who acts like he's going to get shot any second.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  8. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    In my very biased opinion, Self Defense training without contact fight training is like dry land synchronised swimming.

    Might be fun, though.
     
  9. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Just as an aside, you detected a hint of sarcasm in my post that you quoted, right?
     
  10. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Or like, how do I put this... practicing intercourse without a partner.

    Entertaining and fun most of the time, but not really preparing oneself for the real thing.
     
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  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    He should never have left the house
     
  12. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    Yup haha, that was a serious response in agreement with your sarcasm.
     
  13. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    There's missing the point and then there's Full Retard.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Wow. I don’t know which one’s worse...
    1) A grown man using that as an attempted insult
    2) You’d think that would bother me
    3) It took almost a full week to come up with it
    4) You couldn’t come up with something more effective

    Funny how you read and quoted that post, yet fully ignored answering what makes you the expert on SD. Or are you on an “because I said I am” kick at the same maturity level as your previous post?

    I’m still waiting for the same thing you do every few months... stomping your feet and claiming this place isn’t like it used to be because no one’s on your intellectual and maturity level (although see point # 1 above), and leaving for a few weeks, only to come back to the same mess and cry and leave yet again.

    It won’t be long.
     
  15. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    And if he had to leave his house, he should’ve been rolling at least 10 deep*

    *Having at least 10 people with him, for my non-street-speaking friends.
     
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  16. Ondrejmatej

    Ondrejmatej White Belt

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    All martial arts are not design to kill a person, some martial arts are designed to hone the mind and body. Some are used as exercise or for spiritual harmony and some are designed to kill. Most use of martial arts as a form of self-defense rather than killing.
     
  17. GreatUniter

    GreatUniter Yellow Belt

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    All martial arts (speaking for traditional) were designed for killing people and originated from wars. Today, we don't practice like masters of old times and there are lots of philosophies about harmony, spirituality etc. With social development, we no longer have the need to use martial arts for killing and train only for defending ourselves.
     
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  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Many techniques originated from wars, but many arts originated for civilian defense. Most contain things that can kill, but survival was their point. Empty-hand technique on a battlefield was almost certainly meant as a matter of surviving until you can get a weapon. Weapons were for killing.
     
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  19. GreatUniter

    GreatUniter Yellow Belt

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    That's not what I found about martial arts history. Maybe it's time for an update on that subject. :D
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Just to point at a few:
    • Karate - evolved (as far as I can find) as a civilian defensive method, originally on Okinawa
    • Aikido - developed from Daito-ryu by Ueshiba specifically for defensive (and perhaps law enforcement) use
    • Nihon Goshin Aikido - specifically assembled from previous arts (Daito-ryu, Shotokan Karate, Judo, and others) for self-defense use
    • Judo - developed from Jujutsu (and other sources) as a defensive/sport art (I think Kano had both in mind, originally)
    • Brazilian Jiu Jutsu - developed from Judo (at the time, still often referred to as Jiu Jutsu) as a sport/defensive art
    The further back we go, the more likely an art evolved for warfare, so the koryu arts in Japan are more likely to be tied to warfare than newer arts.
     
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