Bringing back old school karate

[Dark]

I was reading over the where is the real karate thread and I had a wounderful idea. Who is for bringing back old school, combat focused karate? And how would you go about the return to old school karate?

 

[pstarr]

I am ALL FOR BRINGING BACK TRADITIONAL KARATE as opposed to the gymnastic, hyena-sqealing, electric-purple tie-dyed uniform type of ...well, I won't do it the honor of calling it karate because it isn't.

For that matter, I would include kung-fu as well.

This is a question I posed on another thread and I'm anxious to hear everyone's ideas....

 

[Dark]

For me this means stripping karate down to foundamentals once again, like how the orgional Okinawan styles were first developed. Dropping the number of forms way back down for shotokan... Or just starting from scratch.

 

[Rook]

I'm not sure how it would be done though...

Any sort of kumite competition based on actual fighting ability is likely to be taken over by MMA-converted people who practice karate/kung fu only in name. All the flashy katas that attract public attention are going to be provided by XMA people... What does this leave to have a tournament in?

 

[Andrew Green]

ok, so what is "Old School" karate, and provide references to support. Oh... problem... very little apart from oral history exists.

Perhaps the ideas around "old school" karate are largely myth?

My personal belief is that the emphasis was less on fighting and more on health. I know one master, can't remember which, was quoted as saying that you can tell how good a persons karate was based on how long they lived.

Self-defence is only a part of taking care of yourself, and a small part. Keeping the body healthy is far more likely to increas your lifespan then any amount of fighting ability.

 

[pstarr]

I would have to respectfully disagree and say that the emphasis on the old, original forms of karate was on developing fighting skill.

But that isn't the point of the thread. The question is, what can we do to promote traditional martial arts and generate public interest in them?

 

[green meanie]

I'm not sure how it would be done though...

Any sort of kumite competition based on actual fighting ability is likely to be taken over by MMA-converted people who practice karate/kung fu only in name. All the flashy katas that attract public attention are going to be provided by XMA people... What does this leave to have a tournament in?

I'd think a good place to start, when trying to get back to 'old school' karate, would be to not worry about going to tournaments. :asian:

 

[Dark]

ok, so what is "Old School" karate, and provide references to support. Oh... problem... very little apart from oral history exists.

Give me a few day 4 or 5 to find my old JKA instructors handbook I got reserve duty this weekend.

Perhaps the ideas around "old school" karate are largely myth?

Problem is Karate is derived from kung-fu, and both have changed dramatically in the last 50 years...

 

[Dark]

In going to old school to we take the Okinawan or Japanese path?

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I have done just that with my system. I teach traditional martial arts even though it is not a system like Shorin Ryu it is similar. The kata cirriculum is Okinawan based got away from the Shotokan kata and back to my roots in kata. I teach bunkai and require it on rank testing. White gis are all that I allow in the dojo accept for kobudo practice then they may wear a black gi.

I am all for traditional karate, effective karate, real karate. This gymnastic stuff is way old and ridiculous.

 

[Dark]

I was considering going to the Okinawan and Chinese paths. And focusing heavily on bunkai, may be have 3 or 4 katas.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Here is the required kata I teach:
Kihon Kata Sho
Pinan Shodan - Godan
Naihanchi Shodan - Sandan
Passai Sho & Bassai dai (to illustrate some other versions)
empi (never learned seisan only empi)
Hangetsu
Jion
Kusanku Dai and on Occasion Kanku Dai
Working on adding Gojushiho for ranking to godan

Other kata I can teach is fukyugata Shodan and Nidan and Bassai Sho.

Bunkai and Yakosoku Kumite taken from the katas are taught at various levels also plus at advanced levels the students must show their interpetation of each kata also.

 

[pstarr]

But - how do we promote the traditional martial arts?

 

[Brandon Fisher]

thats the hard part especially in the USA. People in this country seem to like a lot of flash and a quick road to success and traditional karate isn't either.

 

[stone_dragone]

While I am entirely in support of re-popularizing old school methods and traditional spirit, a caution must be taken to not advertise an art that you do not teach as well as "creating" a new art and trying to present it as an old koryu. Repackaging different kata and speaking only in japanese as you hit each other full force does not mean that you teach "old karate."

I prefer a more traditional style of training, but just because its old doesn't make it better. In the same token, just because a teaching method is new doesn't make it bad or wrong. The screeching-3 minute-kiai-kata and jump-spinning-triple-lutz axe kick for two points can go...I'm cool with that. The "I'm-better-than-you-because-I've-got-a-reflective-gi" attitude can disappear, too. Bring back reliance on kata for training, strong bunkai and oyo, but keep it applicable to today....

... and lets lose the 15 colors with stripes in between to black belt; thats just irritating.

 

[Drac]

gymnastic,hyena-sqealing,electric-purple tie-dyed uniform

LMAO..

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Though I will admit to Kosutemi being tournament oriented, in defense of it, I am not required by my Sensei to compete. Our kata are traditional and focus is on learning how to fight AND compete.

While not 'old skool' in the sense of a purely traditional combat art, I feel it's much closer than the aforementioned hyena-based skillz.

 

[Robert Lee]

Old first you would have to set down a conditioning program. That hardens the body. The hard blocks were also striking blocks. The hands were conditioned to strike and was hardened off to allow for the hands to do more damage. The feet the shins all were conditioned so they could do damage with out being Hurt as easy. This takes dedication of certion students that will train this way. To look at Karate first you see it was for the unarmed defence needed for use aginst who. The japanese that would occupy Okinawa To de. Nah ha te, shori te, All had roots to China But were adapted to Okinawa For its peoples need. What worked well for China did not work as well there. Same as it left went to Japan where they made changes that better met there needs. More or less old Karate was training the body by conditioning it to be a unarmed weapon. Then the certion Katas that were used to train the delivery tools Just take your art you do now research it back and you will see the added Kata. Use them or delete them. Train it where more body hardening is used thats skin and bone conditioning But remember Today you find just a small hand ful of people that want to train like that

 

[Cirdan]

Yes, most people wouldn`t want to strike their fingers full force into bags of rocks today, and I agree with them. The systematic desruction of nerves in your hands and feet turn them into baseball bats, ending their ability to function as thigh tech weapons. Also I want to be able to wipe my own behind in old age thank you very much.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Old first you would have to set down a conditioning program. That hardens the body. The hard blocks were also striking blocks. The hands were conditioned to strike and was hardened off to allow for the hands to do more damage. The feet the shins all were conditioned so they could do damage with out being Hurt as easy

I could not agree more or say it any better. Add to thay students where required to study for years befor being promoted an no one made it in a year or two but many years. If you where in the arts for excersise you got it harder than most people would ever want to excersise and you didn't need to look pretty you just had to be hard as nails an not quite when the going got tuff